XPS 8940, Windows 11, freezes completely

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@ispalten wrote:

First, were you able to go back to V2.3.0 AND stop the lock ups/freezes? When you were installing it you could have seem some error messages above or below the progress bar on the boot screen.

I don't know how long 2.3.0 was actually installed so I can't answer that first question with certainty. I got no error messages in the half dozen times I've now installed it. Hopefully, that's a good sign!

@flitcroft 

I do not think Windows Update will show you the file name, only that something was d/l'ed and you need to reboot to install it?

Even then, it 'should' be in the Optional Updates, and you would need to look there and manually check install it.

That said, I know ONCE at least, even with Capsule Update disabled, one did 'install'. It was listed in the Update Install log. However, I did NOT see it get installed? Normally, when the Dell Logo screen on booting comes up, you'll see the Install wording of the BIOS components being installed and eventually the complete message and another reboot. I never saw that.

Now what I think you are seeing (I could be wrong) is Dell Update. It will tell you what would be installed and ask for permission.

Dell Update is run by Dell Support Assist which has a task to run it once a month. It kicks off Dell Update to do the check, and if an update is found you are notified after Support Assist completes.

Now for the problem I ran into.

I was not one BIOS 2.3, but an newer one late last year. I tried to back level to 2.3, but when I did this, on the BIOS Install screen I saw this:

That to me was a problem. I did some research and even used the Intel Driver and Support Assist and it told me that the Intel Management Interface was up to date. So I d/l'ed and older version of that, and tried to install it. It couldn't be, it said a NEWER version was installed.

So I was faced with a conundrum, live with mismatched f/w (the Intel Management Interface as part of it is in the BIOS on the NVRAM, and the other part is s/w on the PC that does get updated by Windows Update.

This is the latest driver from Intel, https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/download/682431/intel-management-engine-drivers-for-windows-10-and-windows-11.html and for some unknown reason I do not have the latest installed (can see in Device Manager):

Normally either the Intel Driver and Support Assist would alert me to that, or Windows Update would? Check both now and they do not show it as needed? I do know before (maybe 8, 9 months ago when I tried it would not install?). I even just tried to update it via Device Manager Driver tab for the Intel Management Interface #1 and it said run Windows Update and it couldn't find a needed driver update?

I suspect that is because Dell's BIOS requires a specific version of the file?

Anyway, going back level or even changing the driver could cause a problem, as will as a mismatch between the BIOS component and the device driver interface to the part in W11.

As I was researching this and that error I got above, I did find this link, https://www.elevenforum.com/t/latest-intel-management-engine-driver.7411/ and that is pretty clear that is an update is needed, the Intel Driver and Support Assist (link above) would tell you.

Suspect it is all tied to the version in the BIOS. Of course, from the screen capture of the error I saw trying to go back to V2.3.0, I can't change the IME part back to what it was in V2.3.0.

So, because of all that, I'm staying up to date with the BIOS updates.

Not only for all the BIOS updates, but because when I did go back to V2.3.0, after I had a few later versions of the BIOS installed, I still would lock up.

As I've said before, I have over 1 month of no lock ups on V2.10.0 and then lock ups a couple of days apart. Last run was 20 days, and now on my 4th day with no lock up.

You can see this via the Reliability History Viewer. You can get to that via the Control Panel, Security and Maintenance, it is under the Maintenance section that you expand. under Report Problems.

Bottom line as far as I'm concerned is that once you get another BIOS past 2.3.0 installed, lock ups are inevitable. Now that said, the Linux user has had some luck (in terms of time between lock ups) turn OFF Turbo in the BIOS. It still will lock up, but I think went well over a month. Of course, the CPU is basically reduced in performance to its base speed. Might not work for people that need the CPU performance. I should also mention that those that have tried it on Windows still had lock ups.

I don't think there is one answer for all though. My suspicion is a timing conflict has occurred between the OS and a task and the OS hung waiting for something that never happens.

Some also see this as a different 'type' of lock up. I've seen 3 myself:

1. A total lock-up, nothing on the screen will change, not even the clock on the lower right of the taskbar. No mouse movement, no screen change at all?
2. Similar to the above, but I can move the mouse around the screen. However no mouse button or Keyboard will work?
3. Usually when playing a game, watching a video, browser with video, or on Zoom, a total lock up but the SOUND continues, but only sometimes on a lock up, not all the times.

Only way out, of course the Power button OFF and then power the XPS back up.

I should also mention, on rare occasions, I've lost some program setting as they were open when the lock up occurred. Maybe they were writing the settings back or accessing them, but it has happened more than once, even to my desktop once when I rebooted the icons on the desktop moved.

It could even happen that a file that Windows needs to boot could be corrupted and you'd need to either re-install Windows or a BACKUP (which I do make just in case often).

I hope you or someone else can find a guaranteed fix that lasts, and I don't know HOW long one would have to go to call it fixed? Hard to quantify if it is a random event and there is no hint when it will happen and/or how to recreate the fail to test and very and theoretical fix.

Checking back in here. I downgraded my BIOS firmware to 2.3.0 on January 27th, 2023 and I have had zero freezes since that date. This is by far the most stable my system has been in over a year, at 6 weeks without an issue. Before that, my system was freezing 3-5 times a week.

@flitcroft,

Glad it has stabilized for you.

You didn't mention what BIOS you had on before, but up above you'll see that I had a sub-section of BIOS V2.3.0 fail to install. Intel Management Interface doesn't allow back-leveling, so there could be a possible usage problem depending on what is needed to be called in the Engine Interface.

You also wouldn't want to work is such an old BIOS. CVE's (common vulnerabilities and exposures) that can allow your PC be compromised as usually included with all BIOS updates it seems?

For instance, the latest BIOS, V2.11.1 includes these CVE's:

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- Firmware updates to address security vulnerabilities including (Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures - CVE) such as CVE-2022-34398, CVE-2022-21198, CVE-2021-23223, CVE-2021-37409, CVE-2021-44545, CVE-2022-21212, CVE-2022-21197, CVE-2022-21160, CVE-2022-21139, CVE-2022-21172, CVE-2022-21240, and CVE-2022-26047.

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It does appear the list is cumulative though.

If you want to know what each one is, you can search

here --> https://cve.mitre.org/cve/search_cve_list.html 

The last one for instance is for this:

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Improper input validation for some Intel(R) PROSet/Wireless WiFi, Intel vPro(R) CSME WiFi and Killer(TM) WiFi products may allow unauthenticated user to potentially enable denial of service via local access.

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The Killer card it seems would be protected.

In comparison to V2.3.0, only this one is listed:

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- Firmware updates to address the Intel Security Advisory INTEL-SA-00562 (CVE-2021-0157).

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I'd assume since that one is Intel based, it is covered by one of the other CVE's from the official list place.

So, you are leaving yourself exposed (which might be minimal depending on if your Security Suite protects you).

That said, I have always updated to the latest BIOS (did not take V2.11.1 yet) and all the new Nvidia drivers as well as all Windows Update standard files. Since 1/28 I have NOT had a lock-up either?

I know of a user on Linux who disabled the CPU Turbo-boost (reducing CPU performance) and has gone on even longer without a lock-up.

Something HAS changed, no one (Intel, Nvidia, Dell, or the BIOS developer's, usually the motherboard vendor's) have taken responsibility for this either? Could even be a Windows file change?

I suspect, others like you (us) have seen the problem go away as well? For now, I'll stay on V2.10.0. I didn't take V2.11.0 as when it came it you could not go back to any older BIOS, but that was fixed in V2.11.1, so I might look at it later.

I'd suggest you try V2.10.0 of even V2.11.1 of the BIOS to be up to date on the CVE protections. At least you know you could go back to V2.3.0 if you do start having problems again?

Irv,

Appreciate all the replies. I was on 2.10.0 before and it was crashing constantly. The whole situation is terrible, but not crashing in the middle of crucial Zoom meetings is way more valuable to me than the small potential of a malicious actor targeting my PC. I wish I could have both, but the tradeoff seems well worth it. My data is backed up two ways and I run a VPN, virus scanner, and malware scanner. Fingers crossed!

Cheers!

@flitcroft,

See my Reply here on this thread, https://www.dell.com/community/XPS-Desktops/XPS-8940-also-random-freezing/m-p/8364894/highlight/true#M80499 as I remembered I also made a change in the Nvidia Control Center (subject #4 in the link  on my reply). It might have helped me stop the lock ups? Can't say for sure, but the timing of the change is close to the time it stopped happening for me? Might want to test it with V2.10.0? Should still be able to go back to V2.3.0 if it isn't helping?

This post has not been updated in a while.  My 8940 was locking up every hour.  The only changes I made when this started happening was, I updated dell assist remediation app and nvidia video, audio and framework.  I completely removed all traces of nvidia using geek uninstaller and did a refresh install of nvidia for my dell 3060ti.  It appears to be stable now, crossing my fingers.  Since, there is a lot of bios version talks here, I am using 2.14.

@jello007​ 

Interesting, since V2.14 was released a few days ago, there are new reports of lock ups from users who were not having that problem on an older BIOS?

Per chance, did the lock ups exist before updating the BIOS?

@ispalten​ 

Hello,  freezing started again.  Microsoft update under updates even recommended a rollback if necessary.  so i rolled back to 2.13.1 from 2.14.  i will inform if it is stable or not later

Bios 2.14 must of been buggered with the power management, possibly broke it.  Currently, I have my system set to high performance and never turn off display.   I also have the nvidia control panel-manage 3d settings-program settings-power management mode (set to prefer maximum performance.    I never leave my computer running when not in use, so I don't mind leaving it on these energy high usage settings.   But, when i went to 2.14 it appeared to ignore these settings if you are correct. Funny, how Microsoft update, under other updates mentioned bios 2.13.1 if i experience problems.    Drat, I hate things that break like that. spend hours troubleshooting..............   This is not a bash against Dell.  I will always be hanging with Dell for my preferred PC. 

@jello909​

@ispalten​ 

Hello,  freezing started again.  Microsoft update under updates even recommended a rollback if necessary.  so i rolled back to 2.13.1 from 2.14.  i will inform if it is stable or not later

I have never seen such a message with MS Update? When I start it, it re-boots the PC and warns not to power off, Restart happens, the Dell Logo and the completing it and don't turn off the PC...

I do recall somewhere a 'warning' to Roll-back if one had a problem, but that is back out the Update... certainly never a specific warning for a BIOS (which I do NOT allow as I've got in BIOS CAPSULE UPDATE turned off. Also a Windows Setting to not allow MS Update to install Drivers.

Just where did you see that message?

@jello909​ 

Ahh, sorry, missed the part here where is was under Optional Updates.

Do yourself a favor, go into BIOS and turn-off Capsule Updates. That said, I've never seen a BIOS update sitting there in Optional, but I have seen MS Update in its HISTORY state is had installed a BIOS for me, and as I recall, I did have Capsule Update OFF... MS knows better than me what is good for me I guess, NOT!!!

Now from what I know about BIOS, I seriously doubt it would have done what you suspect, altered a OS setting.

BIOS has limited duties to perform, it is activated on power up, and its main purpose is to set up the h/w, IRQ's, and memory, and then pass control to the defined drive's OS Boot loader. It has no clue what it is running, Window (which version), or a Linux variant.

Also, if it did do that, why is it only Nvidia users (so far) have complained?

Another user seems to indicate this happens every 20 minutes after the PC's Monitor is put to sleep?

In all these cases, the Nvidia card is probably part of the problem. Why? Unknown, and not even known if it is ALL Nvidia users?

Me, I'd be thinking the IME, I'm sure part of the BIOS that loads that into RAM and the new Dell released file could play into this...

Hope Dell will get this fixed and/or explain why not to use this version, but with the Fiasco of V2.4.0 is any indication, I'm not holding my breath. That and 8940 are older h/w now and probably wouldn't get the same attention as the latest version of the XPS, not that the 8940 was the latest when the Nvidia problem hit and they fixed it fast, NOT!.

@jello909​ 

Not a real problem, just curious where it was and how it knew the version of the old BIIOS installed?

Link posted as bad, a 404, can't be found.

retry on link    https://imgur.com/a/heCmdVj

@jello909​ 

Ah, now know why. Note the NUMBER on the file for the version, it starts with a ZERO.

You've been letting Windows Update INSTALL your BIOS updates for you. It kept the OLD file in case you want to remove any installed. For specific Drivers, it knows to prompt you.

Under the Windows Updates in Settings you can see all you can uninstall via Update History, Uninstall updates. You might have others that it was allowed to install or YOU allowed. Doesn't always clean these out either. Matter of fact, I've got 2 that are quite old and I know I've had later ones. One of them might have been one I installed even?

To be safe, I'd turn off CAPSULE UPDATE in the BIOS... you really don't want that on, but on the downside, you now might have to find updates for drivers and other items that vendors deliver to MS for them to update... varies by vendor.