Dell bios documentation incomplete

No system halt on error option in XPS 8930.

that is unfortunate.  this option when present is helpful for user to choose to skip start up error.

in XPS 730 this was under advanced>integrated devices>

Only a very small numbers of users know how to access and adjust BIOS firmware settings.  Most of average users only hear and know of the term but are fear (or not understanding) to make change or customize its options.  And therefore, they just use the default settings for all its life (computer).

@Chino de Oro​ I had better results when machines allowed for pushing the update rather than pullling it (i.e. run an exe rather than load an efi capsule). But, of course this is anecdotal.

Good for you. 

From the Dell downloads pages: "Warning: The BIOS or UEFI interface is designed for advanced computer users. Changing certain settings could prevent the computer from completing the power on self-test (POST), prevent the operating system from loading, or a potential loss of data"

The owner sees this and begs off.. One can hardly blame them for doing so? 

Anyway, I guess I feel that the mechanism of running a program specially prepared (by the OEM) to do the update seems less error prone (and more confidence building) than having old firmware load in new firmware (this logically makes no sense frankly). Then further, to allow a subcontractor (e.g. MS) to make these changes as they see fit, when they see fit, adds additional risk to an important process.

@EeyoreTheDonkey​ 

Not sure what you are saying or if you are complaining about something?

Dell has Dell Update program and it can be run alone or via Support Assist. You can read the details too. However, that verbiage is true, and it really has nothing to do with installing the file. The warning is correct too, but that is to CHANGE settings, not do NOT install if you don't know how to change settings (which by the way, as far as settings go and what they do, IS included in the PC manual for SETUP).

Many things get updated (hidden like A/V signature updates, or programs doing it under the covers) and a majority of times it IS wise to update them.

The true problem 'here' is that Dell seems to on occasion put out files that break something. Case in point is the BIOS, caused problems for both users who had an Nvidia or AMD discrete video card.

Many vendors have security fixes within the updates. So they can/do send MS an 'encapsulated' file that MS Update will install on specific PC's with matching h/w. Check your MS Update Log for the OPTIONAL and Driver updates. You'd be surprised what is shown. Vendor's, such as Nvidia also it seems write into those logs SO MS Update knows not to update the file over itself, just in case YOU had changed some settings. For users that are not wanting MS to load/install driver and BIOS updates, there IS a BIOS setting to protect against that, and IT is OFF by default. I should also add, depending how that Capsule Update was created, it is possible changing the setting to stop them will not be seen/honored, and MS will install it anyway.

You said "I had better results when machines allowed for pushing the update rather than pullling it (i.e. run an exe rather than load an efi capsule). But, of course this is anecdotal."

Actually, in my case, I prefer to get the EXE if they are made available. After getting burned with Dell's BIOS update that made my Nvidia card lock up my system, I made changes and also stayed on a known WORKING BIOS looking at every NEW BIOS to see if that was fixed. Same goes for AMD users I bet too. Many have taken to WAITING before updating when a new BIOS appears too (check the forum and see this happens on all models of the XPS too).

Also, in some cases, LOOKING at the vendor sites will sometimes have new updates that you might want (like a network adapter adding support for WiFi 7) and it is available well before it gets to MS Update.

I suggest the true reason a vendor sends the files to MS Update to install them IS to make sure they are installed on every system, due to Security Updates to guarantee 'you' don't hit a problem.

Want to be pro-active, look for and install updates yourself.

Except -at least lately- Windows Update has been pushing out new Dell BIOS updates days/weeks before that same update is offered on Dell's own Support site. So users don't even know the very minimal details Dell posts about each BIOS update on their Support site.  

AFAIK, UEFI Capsule Updates is always enabled by default. So "waiting" may not be an option unless UEFI Capsule Updates is disabled in the currently installed BIOS, With Capsule Updates enabled, WU can force-install BIOS updates without user's knowledge or permission.

And the UEFI Capsule Updates setting has to be checked after each new BIOS update, regardless of how the update was installed: by WU, using SupportAssist, using the .exe file manually inside Windows, or using the .exe file via the F12 Flash Update option. 

@RoHe​ 

Ron, I disable the setting, and I recall by default it IS on? Check it after each BIOS install too.

I have one BIOS installed even though it was disabled? Others were not?

I don''t think Dell sends anything to MS before it posts it. I do think however they post the file and sometime later, you get notification via email that it was.

It is hit or miss too, I remember getting only a few for BIOS, that is not a notice for all.

I find the WU logs unreliable too. I've seen entries for installing my Nvidia driver but it matches the date I installed it? I didn't realize it at first, so every time I do install a new one, I wrote the date down. So now I check the log after I install one and it seems to be that Nvidia writes to the log? Possible that is how WU knows not to install the one they had ready?

Even with the BIOS WU, it doesn't 'act' like the EXE install does? Never saw that bar running across the Dell Logo screen. However it seems that WU masks all that and even does the reboot and you don't know why unless you read the WU log or run something that shows you the BIOS level.

Capsule Updates is enabled by default in most/all systems.  When Microsoft first started pushing Dell BIOS updates via Windows Update, WU ignored the Capsule Update setting in BIOS on the PC, even when it was disabled.

I had a BIOS update force-installed on my XPS 8930 back at the beginning, even though Capsule Updates was disabled. I know it got installed during a reboot because a "System" entry magically appeared in Device Manager under Firmware that was never there before.  NOTE: Firmware>System entry doesn't get updated if you install a BIOS update by any method other than via WU.  So if it's in Device Manager, it may not be an accurate indicator of what BIOS version is actually installed and can cause confusion. That's where msinfo32.exe is helpful...

WU has been offering the same BIOS update for my XPS 8930 for 6+ months but has made no attempts to force-install it because I have Capsule Updates disabled.  So I think MS finally fixed that problem. Just have to remember to disable Capsule Updates again whenever I manually install a new update.

There have been threads with questions about WU offering a new BIOS update before it was listed on Dell's own site and I verified that for at least one model. IMO, that should never be allowed to happen.

@RoHe​ 

Well, first I think there has to be a 'flag' test in the package if it should be automatically installed or not. "Emergency" capsules everyone should install are handled that way. May not have been MS's fault?

Also, the 'supposed' one that was forced on me, I had NO visual proof of it happening? That is seeing the install on the Dell Logo screen... but it happened somehow? Maybe the Capsule version doesn't write to the screen, who knows.

Well, I can tell you, Intel Wifi 7 drivers DO go out (at least at this time) before they publicly  release them. Since W11 needs to have Wifi 7 code in it, they shipped about 3 months before public release the drive with a Canary build. Then a few weeks later the public release (after the driver leaked anyway). I've also seen, but NOT recently, Nvidia driver available as an Optional one before public release.

Actually, in my 'eyes', getting it via WU is a 'good thing'. A large portion of PC Users NEVER go back to the vendor site and look for updates. Many programs "call home" just to check for updates. Then will alert you to that, just like Support Assist which calls Dell Update to do this, and by default runs at a specific time.

My router, when I use the Web GUI or phone app will check when opened and if there is a f/w update, they prompt me to install it. Just how many times do you open these, routers generally are something you configure and never look at it again for most people. No WU can't do anything for a router, but it is an example, and in my case, the Router vendor DOES send me email since the router is registered with my email address, just like Dell emails me that there are some D/L's for my PC, weeks after they were posted.

However, I agree, Forced installs can be troublesome and cause more trouble than it solves.

@ispalten​

"Actually, in my case, I prefer to get the EXE if they are made available."

Isn't this what I wrote? i.e. When the end user runs an exe it is a "push" operation. When the OS updates the firmware via an EFI capsule it is a "pull" operation.

"The true problem 'here' is that Dell seems to on occasion put out files that break something."

Yes, so you actually do understand what I wrote (hm).. Again, this is why Dell has put the warning in their doc. I just think it's a little too dismissive and sort of hints that they don't spend a lot of time testing these things for end user concerns.

To be perfectly clear, my biggest complaint is that firmware updates are important, but, they are risky. They shouldn't be risky at all.

@EeyoreTheDonkey​ 

I understand what you are saying.

From my 'experience' I also are aware of end-user actions.

Let us look at this in another light. Think cars. The car mfg. can't force you to bring your car into service when a Recall is mailed to you. Now I did get one, about the engine shutting down in some cases. I got it in at the first time I was able to. Do you think everyone did?

On the other hand, my Entertainment system and GPS, since it has a built-in radio receiver, it gets updated often, GPS, I never know it happened. But once I was driving and the screen went blank... I thought it broke, but just like MS when it does updates (which you initiate by doing a restart, it it will at a specific time) it puts up a message not to turn off the PC. The car entertainment did when it was re-booting but it was maybe a minute or so after the screen went blank.

If they could do Recall Notices without you coming in, it would be nice.

Well, PC's don't get updated in terms of drivers by some percentage of users. Sure, not your problem, you do.

So why would Dell care if you did it or not?

Depending on content and why it should be installed, it might mean 'satisfaction' for you. However, it might mean Dell doesn't get a service call (some people do buy extended service plans).

As for 'breaking' things, well it happens. They don't do it on purpose. Poor testing, maybe... and I'd be surprised if they don't update the testing to include 'breaks' they had so it doesn't happen again.

Of course, Dell is not immune to this... MS just did it for some owners, not to mention CrowdStrike recently causing havoc around the world.

Almost all Dell updates have 'boilerplate' stuff, and it is the same. Probably required by their legal department.

Now getting back to why it might be better to push the updates, how many PC's are in the hands of novices or non-technical people? How many are in 'work environments'? Have you not seen Dell PC's in offices and stores? The IT people may not be able to update all systems or in a timely manner?

My one complaint about BIOS specifically IS that there is NO content detailed usually. Sometime you will see the CVE number listed, but not always. You can see them here, https://www.dell.com/support/security/en-us/security and some are critical. Not many though for XPS 8940 and most are Nvidia Drivers (you can search the list or select the Dell model to see all 8940 related ones).

The usual way you discover that a new BIOS fixes a prior created problem is IN the forum. Either by a user or an announcement.

Dell also does email one (if it has your email address for the PC) for updates but it still requires you to take action.

Now Support Assist does sort of help the 'non-Techies' as it is part of the base s/w on the PC and scheduled to run often. It will 'test/optimize' the PC and also kick off Dell Update to locate updates available for you (yes, if you take the links to read them it might 'scare' you). This could work for some that would not even KNOW how or why one can update something.

Another example. I have first hand experience with friends who call me they seem to have PC problems... and many times the reason is they DO NOT buy a license for the Security installed on their PC by the vendor when it expires. Yes, they are still protected, but NOT for anything created after their license expired, and yes, it does happen. Why? They didn't think they needed to do that and they were protected.

Many 'programs' do 'call home' these days, and some also update automatically as well. This Security Suites again. Almost daily there are updates. They are 'pulled' by the product, mostly signatures, but sometimes even the programs get updated. I have Norton installed (got rid of McAfee as we have a multi-PC Norton version on the other 2 PC's paid for and I hit a McAfee problem that might have required a re-install or possibly more drastic stuff so I switched, why pay for 2 suites?).

Back to 'risky', I agree, but this isn't a perfect world (i.e. Crowdstrike).

Yesterday our daughter turned on her laptop that she didn't use for some period of time. Saw the logo screen and then a black screen and panicked. We were texting about a program she wanted to get, and eventually the MS Update screen came up... and it took some time and it installed a lot of old updates she missed... If that didn't happen, there could have been operational problems as well.

Our iPad's get updates, and one can enable automatic ones as well. Some do break programs. Many times I go to start one and it says it can not run on this version of the OS, please update. However, some programs have NO update for the installed version. Is Apple responsible to telling me which applications will no longer work? Would be nice for ME to know that, but think of the 'load' on Apple to be able to tell me. Have to test every app known to exist and list them for you so you can decide if you want to install it, or get the app update before installing. Basically 'things' break. The real test is does/can the vendor fix the problem it created...

If you agree with the last sentence, then, for the 8940/Nvidia lock-up/freeze problem, Dell has plain out FAILED. However, for the AMD video card, they 'sort' of passed. They fixed the problem within a short period of time (by the way, and MS update did too for some AMD card users as well).

Mitigating this though for BIOS version, normally it IS the motherboard vendor who makes them. BIOS version contain some code from Intel (the IME is from them), and probably other h/w vendors  with some Dell code possibly provided too.

Now think about the level of test? PC's are needed. How many possible configuration do you think there are for each product? Do you keep the old ones around after a new model comes out? Maybe only a few to basically check the BIOS sent to them will boot?

Now for a 'techie', I'd prefer a 'pull', especially if I *know* a later version of the BIOS doesn't fix my problem OR creates a new one on my configuration. One of the reasons when the MS Update file for Dell's are built they 'should' go into the Optional MS Updates and you can choose to do it or not (with limited info of what it is by the way)? How many people even KNOW to look there or even open the Update page in Settings?

Bottom line, I think Dell handles the situation correctly. May not be perfect, but overall, it is better than nothing and leaving it to users to figure it out, and many will never do it.