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U2713H monitor displays different colors in different applications on my PC
Hi there,
I have three U2713H monitors. One is connected to my MAC and displays colors accurately across all applications (photoshop cs6, lightroom, safari brower, preview, iphoto) I opened the same photo in all applications.
THE PROBLEM:
The other two monitors are connected to my PC (windows 8.1) and the colors are the same in photoshop cc, lightroom and windows photo viewer, but are very different for desktop, internet explorer, paint, infinview). This is driving me crazy to work on images, then post them to FB for example and they look very different. I have set the monitor setting to the identical setting on the MAC and PC, why do they colors show correctly on MAC but different on the PC. Any help with this would be very much appreciated.
Thank you, Laresa
Laresa
6 Posts
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March 29th, 2014 05:00
Hi yumichan, i have read all your documentation and answers
Please correct me on each point if I am wrong and explain why, but to summarize, this is my understanding from all the links and what you have said
1. I will get x-rite i1 display pro to profile my monitor
2. It will calibrate in LUT3D with x-rite
3. I must run a calibratoin and set it to Cal1 for srgb or cal2 for adobe rgb
setting to use when you run the colormunki? : D65, 120cd brightness? What must the monitor be set to: contract 50, brighteness 25? any other settings?
4. Use cal 1 srgb icc profile for the windows 8.1 default device profile and viewing conditions profile, not the default it has now which is srgb that came with the computer> this will result in IE 11 and desktop displaying better colours (is IE 11 color smart yet like firefox?)
5. set the display1 Dell U2713H profile to the new calibrated profile cust 1, in the icc profiles list if I want srgb or cal2 if I want adobe rgb
YOU mentioned using adobe rgb, as srgb works under adobe rgb?
6. IN PHOTOSHOP in color settings, choose srgb or adobe rgb in drop down list under working space(not the monitor profile created called cal 1 or cal 2))
Photoshop will use the monitor profile based on me setting it in the color management of windows under icc profiles - is that correct
Once all this is done what should the setting be for the dell monitors?:
Manual mode cal1 or cal 2 or should I use auto mode and set the cal 1 for photoshop and other image editing software, and what should I set for IE cal 1 srgb or something esle?
what is your recomendation in photoshop, to work in adobe rgb and convert to srgb for clients and the web? or would you just stay in srgb all the time.
I have these fancy monitors and want to utilize them to their best potential and make my workflow simply
Your help is very much valued and appreciated, thank you for all your anwers so far, and I really hope my understanding is now more accurate
thanks, laresa
yumichan
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March 29th, 2014 12:00
1- It's the best choice.
2- Yes, in CAL1 and CAL2 (these are the presets in wich users can write LUT3D calibrations), but you can also calibrate in GPU (the way you have been doing it) the Custom OSD mode (or sRGB, AdobeRGB modes).
Dell Color Calibration Solution (DCCS) does not have L* gamma, but you can get it via GPU calibration if your GPU is good enough (AMD gamer, AMD FirePro, nvidia Quadro).
Do you read us @Dell? We want L* in LUT3D... and neutral grey ramps (20 native gamma reads for each channel)....how many years will we waiting?
when somebody saves cents and buy a NEC Spectraview or Eizo Coloredge? Even 3000€ monitors like UP3214Q have these issues just because of poor software like DCCS. Exhort Xrite to do their job and fix this software.
3-Read 2, save in CAL1/CAL2 whatever gamut suits your needs. CAL2=AdobeRGB, CAL1=sRGB are a good configuration fro most users.
Constrast 50 or brightness 20-25 is just for Custom OSD mode (GPU calibration). I've said it before.
4- NO, I've said it before. Do not change colro management advanced configuration if you do not know what are you doing. Reset these values to default ones.
For LUT3D you ONLY need to change the profile asociaed with your display in THE FIRST tab of Contol Panel-> Color management.
Example:
You switch OSD from "X" to CAL1 (with buttons or with Dell display Manager), then you open COlor managament and set as default prpfile the one you made for CAL1.
You switch OSD from "X" to CAL2 (with buttons or with Dell display Manager), then you open COlor managament and set as default prpfile the one you made for CAL2.
5- I dont know what are you talking about. Mey be it's expained in point 4.
6- Photoshop working colorspace is a way to asociate automatically untagged images (without embeded profile) to a common profile of your workflow. If most of your work is for Web stay with sRGB (web/Inernet), if most of yur work is for fine printing stay with Adobe RGB (general prepress)
You can work with AdobeRGB images even if default colorspace is sRGB. As I daid before it's just a way to work out of the box with untagged images. If you open PS, open a RAW image (nef, raw.. etc) you just need to assign the colorspace in Adobe Camera RAW: sRGB, AdobeRGB... and it will open properly in PS whatever working colorspace you have.
While windows' default profile (point 4) matches OSD mode, sRGB images will be rendered properly, even if you are in a wide gamut mode like CAL2=AdobeRGB.
Remember, Photoshops reads windows profile when this app start. If you chane windows profile after PS is open, you'll need to close PS app and open it again.
Better stay with Dell Display Manager in MANUAL mode, remember to disabla all chackbox in "Options" in Dell Display manager.
If you want to see an image in IE, switch to CAL1=sRGB, you dont need to change windows profile like with PS. Non color managed apps do not read this info.
If you want to see an image in Firefox and you made a "table profile" with DCCS, you need to make a profile (not a calibration, "profile only") with ArgyllCMS/DispcalGUI. Search in this forum , it's easy, just remember to appy GB-LED spectral corrections (RG_phosphor) BEFORE any measurement with ArgyllCMS/DispcalGUI. Make an curves+matrix profile, high quaity 150 patches with this program. Ask in DispcalGUI forum's for further info. I would asignthes new profile to Firefox only, not to windows (about:config, gfx.color_management.display_profile=C:\Windows\System32\spool\drivers\color\U2413 (CAL1) 2014-02-14 D6500 2.2 S 3xCurve+MTX (145).icm, for example... if you have doubts ask in DipscalGUI forum, kind people)
Search for "green" checks in this forum, there is info for most of color managemnt issues of novice users.
yumichan
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March 28th, 2014 01:00
What you are experiencing is the expected result. Nothing is wrong.
MacOSX is "destop color managed" so all non color managed apps are defaulted to sRGB. Windows and most Linux renders non color managed apps to gamut of whatever calibration your GPU+monitor have.
The easiest way to solve your problem is to change to an OSD mode calibrated to sRGB when you use this non color managed apps in Win8: factory sRGB preset + GPU calibration, or CAL1/CAL2 with sRGB calibration.
Examples of Windows color managed apps that will render properly images:
Firefox (gfx.color_management.mode=1), Lightroom, Photoshop, GIMP, MediaPlayerClassic, Acrobat, Windows image viewer...
with other apps like Chrome, Opera or IE any image will be rendered to the full gamut of your current OSD preset.
This is not really an OS issue, this Windows/Linux behaviour makes it easy to design images to portable devices with LUT3D calibration monitors like yours, since most emulators/development enviroments are not color managed. You just need to create a CAL1/CAL2 to portable device RGB primaries and gamma.
Doing this in OSX won't be so easy.
Laresa
6 Posts
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March 28th, 2014 03:00
Hi Yumichan,
Thank you for your answer, very much appreciated. I will try do all of the above. I have a friend that can help who is a little more experienced with windows 8.1 and color.
So if I understand you correctly, once we have done the above, the apps like IE will still display the color differently as it is doing now. The apps that will show correctly are firefox, lightroom, photoshop etc
Thank you again for your help and assistance with this issue
Laresa
yumichan
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726 Posts
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March 28th, 2014 06:00
Read this first
http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/peripherals/f/3529/t/19543156.aspx
Then:
1-Do you have an i1DisplayPro? Calibrate it this DCCS. Reprofile this ArgyllCMS if Firefox color management is needed
2-Do you have other measuremet device? Calibrate sRGB, AdobeRGB and Custom OSD modes.
3-If you do not have or cannot get a measuremet device for a few hours, read the link above.
(1) not working with GIMP means that it cannot read table DCCS profiles. Use the reprofiled one like firefox.
Edir->preferencies->color management, then:
Mode = color managed screen
RGB profile =
If you wish to softproof just asign pinter simulation profile in its combo box and change Mode to softproof
yumichan
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March 28th, 2014 06:00
So if I understand you correctly, once we have done the above, the apps like IE will still display the color differently as it is doing now. The apps that will show correctly are firefox, lightroom, photoshop etc
Not exatly.
Aplications like IE do not know how to deal with your monitor's profile, with profile I mean the characterization or "behaviour description" in a particular OSD mode. They will always think that you have a monitor with a perfect sRGB mode active. If you put in an jpeg image a color like R=0, G=255, B=0 with an embeed profile saying that "this is a sRGB image" Internet Explorer will render R=0, G=255, B=0 to your monitor, even if your active monitor profile is saying that you have an OSD mode with AdobeRGB gamut (so you will be seeing an oversaturaed AdobeRGB green, not an sRGB green)
The only way to deal with this is to put your monitor to work in an OSD mode that is sRGB.
If the image has other kind of profile, for example a jpg with embeded AdobeRGB profile, the only way to view it properly is to set your monitor in an OSD mode that matches AdobeRGB.
To put it in a simple way, these apps do not know how to deal with profiles so image profile and monitor behaviour in current OSD mode must match (in gamut and gamma)
Firefox, GIMP, Photoshop know how to deal with this, but they need an acurate profile to be active (same applies to OSX and any kind of color management system). The profile contains a description of gamut and gamma. When you open an image with an embeded profile these apps "transform" RGB values from image profile's colorspace to the colorspace described by monitor profile. That means that a color managed program would render properly any image with an embebed profile smaller or equal to active profile.
Firefox needs additional configuration to assume that images without any embede profile are sRGB, it's the text string I put above, google it for more info. Current Firefox versions do not read properly "table profiles" made by Dell Color Calibration Solution 1.5+. The easiest way is to reprofile (no calibration, only beheviour measurement) your CAL1/CAL2 with a Curves+Matrix profile with free software like ArgylCMS/DispcalGUI. Assign that profile to Windows or Firefox internal configuration and you are done.
Laresa
6 Posts
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March 28th, 2014 06:00
Hi Yumichan,
I have downloaded gimp, but the colors in gimp are the same as on the desktop and internet explorer, how can I get gimp to show the colors as they are in photoshop?
I need a program other than photoshop that can open psd files
Thanks
Laresa
Laresa
6 Posts
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March 28th, 2014 08:00
Hi Yumichan, thank you very much for your help so far
I have syder 3 calibrater, I have done a profile (chose gamma 2.2, white balance 6500, and brightness Native).
I have loaded that profile into GIMP and it is working like photoshop and lightroom now. Thank you
I have always worked on MAC, so a little slow around PC, only had it for 2 weeks now.
My friend is still going to help me with the stuff I dont understand 100%, as i want to get it right, and I will do what i can till he can help me further based on what you have told us in the above messages.
My question is then, as far as I can tell the OSD mode says:
device profile: system default sRGB IEC61966-2.1
viewing conditions profile: system default :WSC profile for sRGB viewing
When I calibrate the monitor and get an icc profile using gamma 2.2 white balance 6500 and brightness Native, is that a adobe rgb profile or an srgb profile it is creating?
Then when I work in photoshop should I work in adobe rgb or srgb to match the ICC profile that spyder has created? Do I need to get the i1Display pro (is it more advanced and easier to use?)
Should I be assigning the icc profile I created to photoshop? color settings, working space, or should that stay srgb or adobe rgb?
Thanks
Laresa
yumichan
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March 28th, 2014 12:00
Spyder3 cannot measure properly a LED monitor. Spyder4 could but it's not very accurate adn does not account for GB-LED backlight out of the box.
You need a ColorMunkiDisplay or a i1DisplayPro. Their accuracy is the same but the cheaper (munki) is slower and does not work with Dell color calibration solution (DCCS) so no LUT3D calibration is posible. They are about 130€ and 200€, I would go for i1DisplayPro. It's pretty fast better software out of the box and it's the only way to calibrate in LUT3D (you have been calibrating your monitors in graphic's card LUT 1D). Both of them will be usabel with future new backlight types since they work with spectral corrections and even xrie does not support it in the future they will work with ArgyllCMS/DispcalGUI.
Once you know this, for every OSD mode you use, you'll need a profile that describes its behaviour. Since you d not have an i1DisplayPro/MunkiDIsplay at hand right now I would go with standard profiles for OSD modes sRGB and AdobeRGB. How to deal with this its here: http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/peripherals/f/3529/t/19543156.aspx
For custom mode you could try Spyder3. Custom mode has a gamut volume greater than AdobeRGB, a very oversaturated red useful with dealing with eciRGBv2 (saturated printable magentas). Its gamut is larger but des not contain all AdobeRGB, its intersection gives you 99% of the smaller one volume (AdobeRGB)
Try to calibrate it with ArgyllCMS and DispCalGUI. Search in this forum, its a common question. D65 white should be arround gain R=100, G=91, B=97, with luminace arround 120cd/m2 when brightness 20-25% and Contrast 49-54%. Do not change other values if you are nt sure of what these changes do. If you messed up too much with your custom values, perfom a factory reset. Look for it in your monitor's manual.
While in color managed applications choose the OSD that better fits your needs. It is recomended that in these cases you choose a wide gamut mode beacuse you can work with AdobeRGB an sRGB images at the same time.
Once choosed an OSD mode, you must activate the profile that describes its behaviour in the first tab in Color Management under Control Panel. It must be done BEFORE starting Photoshop, the program read profile at startup.
Laresa
6 Posts
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March 31st, 2014 01:00
Thank you Yumichan for all your help. will be in contact when I get my colormunki - have a good week
Laresa
yumichan
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March 31st, 2014 11:00
With a ColorMunki you cannot use Dell Color Calibration Solution, you need the i1DisplayPro.
With de ColormunkiDisplay you can attain the same accuracy in Custom OSD mode than with i1DisplayPro... they are more or less the same device but X-rite blocked DCCS software in order to make you buy the more expensive one.