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January 1st, 2021 13:00

U2412M, HP Spectre laptop, connection

I'm trying to connect my HP Spectre x360 (model eb0003na 4K) to a Dell U2412M monitor and would appreciate some advice as I can't seem to get a good resolution on the monitor.

  • The Spectre has Thunderbolt 3 (40Gbps signaling rate) with SuperSpeed USB Type-C 10Gbps signaling rate, DisplayPort 1.4 and HDMI 2.0b ports, and a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650 Ti graphics card.
  • The monitor has DVI (which is working perfectly with a PC), VGA (working perfectly with an Apple MacBook Pro using a USB-C to VGA connector) and DisplayPort (I've never used this).

I'm thinking of buying the HP Spectre USB-C Travel Dock which has a VGA DisplayPort 1.2 that supports display resolution up to 1920 x 1080 at 60Hz. But before investing I want to prove the Dell monitor will work with the Spectre via VGA.

So, I took the Apple USB-C to VGA connector from the MacBook Pro and plugged it in to the Spectre's Thunderbolt port. Then I tried different ways of configuring the Dell monitor under Multiple Displays, as shown below. None was successful.

I'm not sure whether the problem is the Apple connector (are they only suitable for Apple laptops?), the drivers on the Spectre (but I've tried updating them and Windows says everything is up to date), or maybe the Spectre is just too far advanced to work with the U2412M on VGA and I need to buy a different adapter to connect from HDMI to DVI or from the Thunderbolt port instead.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

These are the configurations I've tried:

1. Duplicate these displays (this is the setting I want to use)

The text is the correct size on the Dell monitor but it's badly pixilated and the top and bottom 4cm of the screen are not used (black).

Advanced Display Settings shows that it recognises the monitor as Dell U2412M and that it's connected to the GTX 1650 graphics card. Desktop Resolution shows 3840 x 2160 and Active Signal Resolution shows1024 x 768.

Display Adapter Properties - Adapter tab has a list of valid modes (640 x 480, 720 x 480, 720 x 576, 800 x 600 and 1024 x 768) but it doesn't let me select any of them.

2. Show only on 2

With this setting the text on the Dell monitor is far too large.

I've tried changing the display resolution from 1024 x 768 (recommended) to 1920 x 1200 (the maximum the monitor can handle) but this is ignored and it just goes back to 1024 x 768.

3. Extend these displays

With the Spectre as the main display the text on the Dell monitor is in proportion but it's too large. So for example if I open Excel I have to zoom down to between 50 and 75% to get enough data on screen, but then the quality is lost and it all looks pixilated.

Advanced Display Settings shows that it recognises the monitor as Dell U2412M and that it's connected to the GTX 1650 graphics card. Desktop Resolution shows 1024 x 768 and Active Signal Resolution shows1024 x 768.

If I switch it round so the Dell is the main display, everything on the U2412M is suddenly huge - icons, text, everything. Unusable.

4 Operator

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14K Posts

January 1st, 2021 18:00

@Deb2020  Given that your Spectre has a USB-C port that supports video output, and that you have an unused DisplayPort input on your display, AND that any input other than ancient VGA will look noticeably better than VGA because VGA is analog whereas everything else is digital, your best option here is a USB-C to DisplayPort adapter/cable.  If you have to use a travel dock, maybe see if you can find one with a DisplayPort output.  Or since finding one with an HDMI output is much more common, is there any chance you can free up the display's DVI input that you're currently using with your PC?  If that PC has a DisplayPort output, use a DisplayPort cable to connect that PC to the display, and then you can use an HDMI to DVI cable to connect an HDMI-equipped travel dock to the display's DVI input.  (Note: Although DisplayPort to DVI and DisplayPort to HDMI cables exist, they are designed to connect a DisplayPort source to an HDMI/DVI input and cannot be used in the opposite direction, so that would not be a valid solution.)  But I'd really encourage you to get away from VGA, or at least relegate it to whichever system you use least, because it does look noticeably worse especially at 1920x1200, which is at the very top end of what VGA was ever able to handle.

As for the display quality issues you found, given that you mentioned "4K" in your Spectre model, I'm guessing that the resolution of the built-in display is 4K?  If so, it wouldn't make sense to duplicate a 4K display (3840x2160) to a U2412M (1920x1200).  In addition to the huge difference in resolution, those displays aren't even the same aspect ratio.  The former is 16:9, while the latter is 16:10, which means you'll either end up with black bars somewhere or a stretched image.  But even if you use Extend mode so that each display can run at its own native resolution rather than duplicating, running a 4K laptop display and a 1920x1200 desktop display simultaneously can still result in subpar image quality on whichever display is not primary.  Read this post that I wrote in another thread for an in-depth explanation of why (skip the first paragraph).

4 Operator

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14K Posts

January 1st, 2021 18:00

@Deb2020  I figured I'd expand a little bit on my previous reply above and offer a suggestion for the optimum setup given your hardware and preference for running Duplicate mode.  As I hinted at above, a 4K laptop display and a 1920x1200 external display is a bad combination, and it's even worse if you want to run Duplicate given the difference in both resolution and aspect ratio.  But if you want to make the best of it, here's what you'd do:

  • Manually set your laptop's built-in display to 1920x1080 resolution rather than 3840x2160.  Then set the scaling to 100% rather than the 200% or so that you were using before when running 3840x2160.  You'll almost certainly notice the drop in sharpness from running only 1/4 of your original resolution, but if you're duplicating to an external display that doesn't have 4K resolution, then you have to work with the lowest common denominator here.  However, setting the scaling to 100% while running that resolution should keep things the correct size on the laptop display, AND will avoid the scaling issues I described in that post I linked, since those come into play only when running displays with different scale factors.
  • Finally, run the U2412M at 1920x1080 as well, matching the laptop's built-in display -- not the U2412M's native resolution of 1920x1200.  Since the U2412M's native resolution is 1920x1200, with this setup you'll either see black bars along the top and bottom edge (since you're not using the display's entire vertical resolution) or else you'll see an image that's been stretched vertically to fill the U2412M's panel area.  You'll have to decide which is preferable to you, and I believe the U2412M has scaling settings within its on-screen controls to allow you to make that choice.

Finally, note that when changing the scale factor of the primary display, Windows will apply the change immediately by applying post-render GPU scaling, but that won't be as good as Windows changing its internal rendering scale factor.  For that to happen, you'd have to completely log off and back in to your Windows session, so do that after dropping your laptop's resolution from 3840x2160 to 1920x1080 if you want to see optimum results.

The catch here of course is that the optimum way to duplicate to your U2412M involves running your laptop's built-in display at a much lower resolution than native.  That in turn means you'll have to decide what you want to do whenever you're NOT connected to that display.  You can either a) deal with the inconvenience of switching your laptop display's resolution and scale factor back and forth as you switch between having the U2412M connected or not (and logging off and back onto Windows for optimum presentation after making that change), or else b) keep your laptop display set to 1920x1080 full-time to avoid that hassle, at the cost of not using the extra resolution of your laptop's display.

4 Operator

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14K Posts

January 3rd, 2021 13:00

@Deb2020  A 15" 4K display is a little bit better, but it doesn't really move the needle all that much.  The fundamental problem is unchanged.  I didn't explain it quite as well as I should have above, but it boils down to this: If you mirror a display, then you have to use the same resolution and same scaling settings on both displays.  If you have two displays that are running the same resolution but have significantly different physical sizes, as is the case with a laptop display and any desktop display, then you'll have two very different pixel densities in play.  That in turn means you'd want to use very different scaling settings on those two displays -- but you can't do that when you're mirroring.  You have to choose one, and there won't be one that works well on both displays.  You can optimize for one, or the other, or accept a compromise that will be pretty bad for both.  If on the other hand you want to maintain consistent pixel density between displays so that you can run the same scale factor across all of your displays, then you'd need to increase display resolution as you increase display size.  But if you're starting from 15" 4K, scaling up to even 24" size means a significant increase in resolution in order to maintain that same density, and 4K is already the max that your system will run, so you're stuck.  And even if that weren't an issue, this scenario assumes using a consistent scale factor without mirroring, because here you're not using the same resolution.

If you want a laptop that's suited to mirroring, you generally want a 1080p built-in display.  A 13" 1080p display is often run at 125-150%, and a 14-15" 1080p display is often run at 100-125%.  Those scale factors work well on 24-27" 1080p displays.  Running 150% on a 27" 1080p display might not be ideal, but it wouldn't look ridiculous.  (14-15" 1080p displays and 24" 1080p displays are both typically comfortable to use at 100% because again, laptop displays are typically viewed from a shorter distance.)  But given that you've got a 15" 4K display that you're running at 250%, there just isn't an external display that would work well at that scale factor.  The closest you could probably come would be a 24" 4K display, which would normally be used at 200%, but 250% might actually look ok.

HOWEVER, now you're saying you don't use the built-in display at all while connected to the external display?  In that case why did you say you wanted to use mirroring earlier?  Mirroring by definition means using two displays that are displaying the same image.  If you don't intend to use the built-in display while using the external display, then yes Second Screen Only is the way to go, and then none of this matters anymore because when using only your external display you can use a scale factor that's comfortable for you there (probably 100-125%) and then go back to 250% when using your built-in display.  At that point, the only inconvenience will be that when switching between those two displays and therefore switching scale factors, you'll want to log off and back onto Windows so that Windows changes its internal rendering scale factor to match the new one you're running, rather than continuing to use the original scale factor internally and using GPU post-render upsizing/downsizing to make it fit the new scale factor.  The latter makes things the right size for your new scale factor, but they won't look as good as they will if you log off and back on so Windows starts rendering for that scale factor in the first place.

6 Posts

January 2nd, 2021 07:00

Wow, what a comprehensive and clear explanation, I really appreciate you taking the time to explain @jphughan.

I might give USB-C to DisplayPort a try, but from the sound of things my best bet is going to be to treat myself to a new monitor.

Many thanks for your help.

4 Operator

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14K Posts

January 2nd, 2021 08:00

@Deb2020  Happy to help. Honestly even a newer display wouldn’t completely fix this. Even if you got a 4K display to have the resolutions match, if you can’t comfortably use the same scaling setting on both, you may still have an issue. That’s why dropping the display to 1920x1080 works here, since it would allow you to use 100% scaling on both displays to avoid the rendering issues I mentioned in that linked post.

What scaling setting are you using on your laptop display now on its own? If it’s 200%, then if you got a 4K display that was no larger than 24”, you’d have a solid setup, because a 24” 4K display at 200% is essentially a very sharp rendition of a 24” 1080p display, which is a very common setup. So things will be a normal size, and just very sharp. But if you’re using a scale factor higher than 200% on your laptop display, that might be a challenge.

And then there’s the question of whether your other PC and Mac are capable of running a 4K display. I guess they could always run it at 1920x1080 instead, but then you lose the benefit of the extra resolution when using those systems. Good luck!

6 Posts

January 3rd, 2021 09:00

Hi @jphughan The Spectre is going to replace the PC, and the Mac is only temporary so it's just a matter of getting the new laptop to play nicely with the U2412M monitor if possible, and if not then I guess replacing the monitor.

The laptop on its own is using the recommended scaling setting of 250%.

The monitor I was considering is the Dell P2721Q which is 27 inch, 4k 3840x2160 native resolution, 16:9 aspect ratio, 1000:1 contrast ratio, but I can't find any information about the recommended scaling setting for it. How do I figure out whether it'd work with the Spectre's 250% scaling?

4 Operator

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14K Posts

January 3rd, 2021 10:00

@Deb2020  Scaling is based partly on a user’s preferences and eyesight, a bit on viewing distance, and a lot on the display’s pixel density. For reference, Windows defines a standard display as 96 ppi. That means that when something meant to be an inch wide (like a one-inch gap on the MS Word ruled) is displayed on a display with 96 ppi and the default 100% scaling is used, that one-inch graphic will be a real world inch wide. A 24” 1080p display, which is a very common setup, results in 94 ppi, very close to the standard. Laptop displays often run higher densities (like 15” 1080p), but they’re designed to be viewed from a shorter distance.

Scaling comes into play when using displays with higher pixel density, because in that case a given number of pixels occupies less space, which makes things smaller if you don’t use scaling. Going back to that 24” display, if you have 4K resolution instead, you get double the pixel density at 188 ppi. That’s why it’s common to use 200% (2x) scaling there, so that the “effective” density is 94 ppi (188 divided by 2), which makes things a usable size again while also making them much sharper.

But your Spectre has 4K resolution on a 13” display, which gives an even higher 338 ppi — and that's why you use 250% scaling, for an effective density of 135 (338 / 2.5), which is about normal for laptop displays.

But there aren’t any typical desktop displays that would run that density. The closest I can think of is Dell’s 32” 8K display with 275 ppi, but that display costs a few thousand dollars, and very few PCs on the market can even run it.

Your 27” 4K display is 163 ppi, which most people would run at 150% scaling for an effective 108 ppi presentation.

There really isn’t a great solution if you want to mirror a 13” 4K display to a desktop display. Mirroring requires matching resolutions, but the scaling you’re running to keep 4K resolution usable on a 13” display would result in things being comically large on a desktop display that ran that same resolution across a much larger physical panel area.

6 Posts

January 3rd, 2021 11:00

Thanks @jphughan My laptop is actually the 15" version (15.6" diagonal) if it makes any difference. I found a calculator that suggests this would be 282 ppi (or 113 ppi at 250% scaling), does that sound about right?

When I'm working at home I don't use the laptop's display at all, only the external monitor (currently the U2412M). Would I be better off setting the multiple display option to 'second screen only' rather than 'duplicate? I did try that, as mentioned in my original post, but perhaps I need to use a different resolution / scaling?

I've ordered a USB-C to DisplayPort cable so I can try the 1920x1080 / 100% scaling option with 'duplicate' too.

6 Posts

January 5th, 2021 09:00

Thanks once again @jphughan 

My USB-C to DisplayPort cable arrived today and I've managed to get the U2412M working on the second screen only setting as you advised.

Sorry for misleading you earlier. I've always used screen mirroring because in a work environment, even though I wasn't looking at the laptop it was convenient whenever I had to quickly disconnect the external monitor to go to a meeting. I'm working at home these days so the realisation hit me that second screen must be more appropriate. I'd dismissed it because my first attempt to use it rendered everything huge .. but that must have been down to using a VGA cable. Now I've got the right kit the problem is solved and all I have to do is remember to sign out and back in which isn't so bad.

Many thanks for taking the time to explain. I understand everything so much better thanks to all that information you provided.

You're a star (and a very patient one!).

4 Operator

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14K Posts

January 5th, 2021 11:00

@Deb2020  Thanks for reporting back and for the kind words!  Great to hear that you're all set, and I'm glad I was able to help.  Enjoy your setup!

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