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July 30th, 2018 07:00

XPS 8930, Dell RX580 is actually a RX480?

I placed an order through dell.com several days ago, it's XPS 8930 desktop. The graphic card included in the system should be RX580.  However, it looks like that Dell deliberately loaded a RX 580 bios on the RX 480 to call it a RX 580. I google it and found many posts have talked about this problem, they say this is a potentially fraud. Dell please provide a solution to this issue. Thank you.

Community Manager

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55.2K Posts

July 30th, 2018 07:00

 

Incorrect and not fraud. The XPS 8930 sells with the OEM (original equipment manufacturer) customized JTPTC AMD Radeon RX 580 hardware purchased from AMD for Dell. This OEM card has our Dell vBIOS on it. You cannot compare our OEM video cards with retail cards specifications.

July 30th, 2018 08:00

1. In fact, this card use a 6 pin connection, have a boost clock of 1266MHz, and a TDP of 110 W. So it seems like  they are deliberately re-badged from RX 480's, but the cards have the limited voltage, power draw, and speeds of low-end RX 480's. 

2. The RX 580 is effectively a better binned RX 480. The silicon has improved slightly, allowing for higher overclock's and stability at lower voltage for the same clock speeds. 

3. The launch date for RX 580 is April, 2017, while the card is made early than this date.

4. The RX 580 should based on Polaris 20 (AMD call it: Polaris Evolved), where the card on my machine is Polaris 10

9 Legend

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47K Posts

July 30th, 2018 11:00

580 & 570 are versions of the 400 series that are stable at higher clock and voltages. only difference is 5-10% better performance, but a quite a bit more power usage.Therefore the RX580 is the same Polaris chip as the RX480, but it has a higher core clock where the 580 is basically a 480+ . AMD rather than releasing a 480X are simply re branding as a 580.

14nm FinFET LPP Technology is Featured on Polaris 21, Polaris 20,  Polaris 12, Polaris 10 GPUs

Basically Polaris ≥ Hawaii, Vega ≥ Fiji

What does the latest GPU-Z say?

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/

 

http://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-Radeon-RX-580-vs-AMD-RX-480/m268793vs3634

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TedeM61NtSw

Card Name

AMD Radeon RX 480

AMD Radeon RX 470

AMD Radeon RX 470D

AMD Radeon RX 460 1024 SPs

AMD Radeon RX 460

Graphics Core

Polaris 10

Polaris 10

Polaris 10

Polaris 11

Polaris 11

Process Node

14nm FinFET

14nm FinFET

14nm FinFET

14nm FinFET

14nm FinFET

Die Size

232mm2

232mm2

232mm2

123mm2

123mm2

Transistors

5.7 Billion

5.7 Billion

5.7 Billion

3.0 Billion

3.0 Billion

Stream Processors

2304 SPs

2048 SPs

1792 SPs

1024 SPs

896 SPs

Clock Frequency

1266 MHz

1206 MHz

1206 MHz

1200 MHz

1200 MHz

Compute Performance

5.8 TFLOPs

4.9 TFLOPs

4.3 TFLOPs

2.56 TFLOPs

2.2 TFLOPs

VRAM

4/8 GB GDDR5

4 GB GDDR5

4 GB GDDR5

4 GB GDDR5

2/4 GB GDDR5

Bus Interface

256-bit

256-bit

256-bit

128-bit

128-bit

Memory Speed

8 GHz

6.6 GHz

6.6 GHz

7 GHz

7 GHz

Memory Bandwidth

256 GB/s

211 GB/s

211 GB/s

112 GB/s

112 GB/s

TDP

150W

120W

110W

75W

75W

 

 

Radeon™ RX 580 GPU

Radeon™ RX 480 GPU

Compute Units 36

Compute Units 36

Base Frequency Up to 1257 MHz

Base Frequency Up to 1120 MHz

Boost Frequency Up to 1340 MHz

Boost Frequency Up to 1266 MHz

Max Performance  Up to 6.2 TFLOPs

Max Performance Up to 5.8 TFLOPs

ROPs  32

ROPs  32

Stream Processors 2304

Stream Processors 2304

Texture Units  144

Texture Units  144

TDP  225 W

TDP 150 W

July 30th, 2018 12:00

Thank you for your posting, @speedstep

I checked the card on my machine. The results shows that this card have a boost clock of 1266 Mhz, and a TDP of 110 W (it uses a 6 pin connection). It also shows that this card is based on Polaris 10. 

The RX580 should based on Polaris 20, AMD call it: Polaris Evolved. According to AMD, though still is 14nm FinFET, the silicon has improved slightly, allowing for higher overclocks and stability at lower voltage for the same clock speeds. 

9 Legend

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47K Posts

July 30th, 2018 17:00

"The RX580 should based on Polaris 20,"

Polaris 10 features 2304 stream processors
36 Compute Units  
and supports up to 8GB of GDDR5 memory
on a 256-bit memory interface.

This is what the OEM RX580 has.

I see no AMD spec page that specifically says an

RX580 MUST BE Polaris 20.

Under Features they BOTH SAY


https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/radeon-rx-580
3rd Gen 14nm Process Technology

https://www.amd.com/en/products/graphics/radeon-rx-480

3rd Gen 14nm Process Technology

 

You are demanding RETROACTIVELY to have

14LPE (Low Power Early) - Early time-to-market version

Replaced with


14LPP (Low Power Plus) - Enhanced version with higher performance and lower power

On an OEM Card.

This isn't happening and won't be

AMD Radeon RX 580: Polaris 20 XTX GPU Retail is not the OEM version Designed in 2016. XTX is the base chip and XTR is higher spec chip.

July 31st, 2018 03:00

b36e2925_580rx.jpggpuz_oc.gifRTWdxmB.png

The release date is 2017, RX580 from other vendors. 

123.jpg

This is DELL RX580, the release date is 2016, and the clock is 1266 MHz

July 31st, 2018 03:00

​Today AMD (NASDAQ: AMD) introduced the Radeon™ RX 500 series, a new line of graphics cards featuring a powerful combination of improved game performance, higher clock speeds1, and a refined 2nd generation Polaris architecture, giving PC gamers the best reasons yet to upgrade their graphics.

comes from AMD official news about RX 500 series.

https://www.amd.com/en-us/press-releases/Pages/radeon-rx-500-series-2017apr18.aspx

 

 

daf2d59b3c9a6a6b73ad868f12f82c4a-640x310.png

This figure graphics driver Radeon Software Crimson Edition

 

you can also google RX580 to see the results. here I list some posts related to this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Radeon_500_series

https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Radeon-RX-580-8GB-Review-Polaris-Populism

https://videocardz.com/68450/amd-radeon-rx-500-series-official-specifications-and-performance-leaked

https://www.techpowerup.com/232246/amd-polaris-20-xtx-xl-chips-powering-the-rx-500-series-confirmed

9 Legend

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47K Posts

July 31st, 2018 06:00

The OEM Dell Card Says Ellesmere REV C7

The cards you are harping on say Ellesmere REV E7

 Ellesmere Baffin Greenland and other Code names are hidden.

Point being they are ALL Ellesmere

“Ellesmere” is in both market segments, such as high-end and mainstream.

You cannot insist that the clock speed for DELL OEM be the same as Retail Cards.  The SAME  number of Shaders 2304 unified. Compute Nodes and ROPS/TMU 32/144  and GDDR Ram is the same.

There is Absolutely NOTHING in that chart that says MUST BE Polaris 20.

There is a difference between OEM (unboxed, tray, or white-box) and Retail (boxed)

OEM cards often include lower speed memory (such as 6ns instead of 5.5ns, 5ns instead of 4.5ns, 4 instead of 3.4), and are often clocked slower.  This is by design.

The Asus card has Greyed out Clock which you seem to be keying on.

0  Mhz Clock ???0 Mhz Clock ???

 

 

 

July 31st, 2018 07:00

222.jpg

Usually Ellesmere REV C7 is used for RX480. See the pic above.

Please read my posts carefully and do not just read the pictures. I have attached the links of AMD official news and other links. Please read them.

2222.png

Polaris 10 is the first generation. However, from AMD official news for rx500 series: improved game performance, higher clock speeds1, and a refined 2nd generation Polaris architecture. 

Furthermore, could you explain why DELL RX580 have the same clock with RX480? While AMD says rx580 has a higher clock speed.

I also wonder why the graphics card is named as RX580, while the video chipset is still identified as RX480.

There is no need to argue for the credibility of gpu-z. 

 

9 Legend

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47K Posts

July 31st, 2018 08:00

You have no statement from AMD that the DELL OEM RX580 is Polaris 20.

Clock rates ARE DIFFERENT in all of your pictures.

The number of shaders,  the number of TMU / ROPs , the amount of ram is THE SAME and they are ALL Ellesmere.

Your insistence on OEM cards having RETAIL Clock Rate and Chipset Revision Retroactively is not happening and will never happen.

You have no case.

Cards do not time travel into the future and pick up revisions.

 

 

July 31st, 2018 10:00

I have posted all the facts but you select not to see them. 

Though the clocks are different, it is obviously that all of the posted figures have a clock larger than 1266 for RX580, excepting DELL.

Please don't just blow off my questions in my last post.

The following figure is from AMD official website, you can see the TBP should be 185W for RX 580 to fulfill the performance requirement. Why the TBP for DELL RX 580 is only 110W and use a 6 pin connection?  Note that this is not a suggestion, this is a requirement. 38197309_2109394575798347_550446169751289856_n.png

Community Manager

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55.2K Posts

July 31st, 2018 11:00

 

"this is a requirement"

Correct, for retailers (XFX, Asus, MSI, PowerColor) who make their own branded retail RX 580 and sell them in retail. But that does NOT apply to OEM manufactured video cards. You cannot compare our OEM video cards with retail cards specifications. Bottom line, you bought an OEM PC with OEM hardware. Dell is not going to refund you the price of our OEM video card and then sell you a retail video card. You have three choices =
* Keep the PC and current video card
* Remove the current OEM video card and install a retail video card
* Return all inside the first 30 days from the invoice date for refund

July 31st, 2018 17:00

I have some questions related to refund, they may include some personal information, can we talk about them through email? 

1 Message

July 31st, 2018 18:00

you have a good system I have a dell xps 8930 with a 8600k swapped out stock cooler with arctic freezer 11 lp and a rx 580 but I got a msi rx 580. one thing to remember about oem dells and hp and any other oem. if their systems include an oem gpu it will be different than cards from evga, asus,msi, gigabyte and so on. oem cards are always lower clocked. If you don't want to build a system I would get a refund get a  dell xps with out a gpu and get a third party card. 

Community Manager

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55.2K Posts

August 1st, 2018 07:00

All refund questions must go directly through Order Support.

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