1 Rookie
•
14 Posts
0
168
XPS 8930, Blank screen with Asus replacement graphics card
I ordered an Asus GTX-1660 Ti to replace a Dell GTX-1060, 6GB that came with the XPS8930
It still has every original factory hardware component
460W PSU
Core i-7 8700, 8th Gen 6 core
SK hynix NVMe 256GB
Seagate SATA-III 6.0Gb/s 2 TB HDD
Micron Technology 16GB, 2666 MHz, DDR4
Dell GeForce 1060, 6GB
Special Edition case
Dell's 1060 is still functioning. Something's going on with the fan (blower type with heat sink). Maybe massive dust built up around the heat sink, dry thermal pads. There're no screws to take the shroud off. Unscrewing the PCB (if its possible) looks to be how they assembled the shroud. Signs of issues for a year now have been going on in the GPU-Z sensors readings.
I have a 1660 Ti (same blower style fan) ordered which will be compatible for the PSU and everything else in this desktop
The subject I'd like to dive a little bit into is secure boot.
This discussion from last year I thought was very interesting. https://www.dell.com/community/en/conversations/xps-desktops/xps-8930-msi-graphics-card-upgrade-issue/64d49530b52334366781cfa1
I highlighted the comments I thought were most interesting
@RoHe stated, "The driver's digital signature has to be included in special database that's managed by the OEM who made the PC." . . . . "These databases are stored on firmware NV-RAM on the motherboard during manufacturing. . . . "Dell and other OEMs don't typically add "retail" GPU digital signatures to their databases." "And GPU companies don't like to pay to have signatures added. . . ."
@JamieLinux replied, "driver signing associates a digital signature with a driver package and verifies the identity of the vendor. . . " "The digital signature is issued by a certification authority (CA) and is stored in a catalogue file that is part of the driver package." "Dell would not have to add any retail GPU to their database because secure boot does not care about it."
I see acknowledgment by both about a database list in the firmware.
Where is a catalog file stored that's part of the driver package that have digital signatures ?
One point of the discussion based on my reading that didn't come across at all was the graphics card firmware. Newer graphics cards have a Graphics Output Protocol driver in its firmware AND the firmware has to be properly signed to be allowed for secure boot. Graphics Output Protocol superceded the common vBIOS when they started adding a GOP driver to the firmware.
I'm interested in trying to see if this Asus card runs with secure boot enabled. The OEM card likely has a GOP driver in the firmware with a signature. But a conflict may still occur because as @RoHe stated, the driver's digital signature has to be included in the special database on the firmware of the NV-RAM chip on the motherboard.
Its better to be prepared. If the system hangs with a blank screen when trying to get into the DELL (F2) BIOS settings with secure boot enabled, what's the best manner to shut down so that the Dell card can be installed again to get into the BIOS again to turn off secure boot
JamieLinux
2 Intern
2 Intern
•
272 Posts
1
January 28th, 2024 17:56
@Uncola if the card is not posting at all, I would test it in another machine or take it to a PC shop to see if they can test it, chances are someone sold you a dead card. if you cant even get generic windows vga driver to post it into windows with a video signal. I would say the card is doa.
RoHe
10 Elder
10 Elder
•
44.1K Posts
1
January 29th, 2024 00:08
@Uncola - I don't have the final say in this situation. All I can do is ask questions.
When you replaced the battery, you should have had to disable Secure Boot again. So double-check that setting. Yes, I'm being a broken record about this, but trying to be thorough.
If Secure Boot is still disabled, I'd conclude you've tested everything you possibly can. So it comes down to being a DOA video card. If you can do an RMA for a full refund, you probably should go for it. And then look for a GPU from somewhere else, and make sure it comes with a warranty...
JamieLinux
2 Intern
2 Intern
•
272 Posts
0
January 24th, 2024 02:08
it may work with secure boot it may require it to be disabled, you can always disable it install the gpu and drivers and re-enable it, if it fails just hard reboot it and leave it disabled.
Uncola
1 Rookie
1 Rookie
•
14 Posts
0
January 24th, 2024 04:10
@JamieLinux
It's not easy piecing this puzzle together with the secure boot feature enabled in pure UEFI mode.
You said in last year's thread that the digital signature is issued by a certification authority (CA) and is stored in a catalogue file that is part of the driver package. Maybe you can elaborate a little more ?
Newer graphics cards (the 16 series I purchased included, was released to the market in 2019 when GOP drivers superceded vBios
firmware on cards have a a so- called Graphics Output Protocol driver with a proper signature.
Motherboard BIOS'es have the data instructions on a non volatile RAM chip that has the firmware and a database file stored.
Secure boot enabled in BIOS does check the firmware for digital signatures on the motherboard.
But where cards firmware that have a driver with a signature fall into place, I'm not sure I'm understanding correctly that you said secure boot neither knows nor cares about any firmware except that in the motherboard.
Are you saying secure boot neither knows nor cares about the card's firmware?
I've read each comment carefully but not every one falls into place
(edited)
JamieLinux
2 Intern
2 Intern
•
272 Posts
0
January 24th, 2024 16:39
@Uncolat Sorry when I wrote that comment I was talking about the drivers are digitally signed, secure boot should not care about it. Which still stands true. However there are different revisions of Secure boot and uefi .
I have tested PNY cards in the 8940 and have not had any issues nor have I had to disable secure boot. But full disclaimer not every GPU manufacture does everything the same way.
if it doesn't work with secure boot enabled in the off chance you can import your own keys and or reset the keys to default . Which may or may not work.
As far as driver signing goes.
Windows Secure Boot Key Creation and Management Guidance | Microsoft Learn
Uncola
1 Rookie
1 Rookie
•
14 Posts
0
January 24th, 2024 18:31
@JamieLinux Thanks for that. I know. I've read other user's comments that have stated they never had to disable secure boot with PNY cards. PNY was my first choice when I was looking around. I found a never used "open box" PNY GTX-1660 Ti but came to find out it was offered for sale "As-Is", meaning they offered no returns, no guarantees, no nothing. When I asked why, they told me to go elsewhere and buy the card.
I have a 5 yr old Dell monitor connected with a DP cable to the Dell GTX 1060 DP 1.4 port. I'm not worried or concerned about needing to disable secure boot for the 16 series card. . . I'm just curious to see if it could run in pure UEFI secure boot.
Lots of users on other forums confirm motherboard BIOS'es only need to "support" secure boot running Win 11. Meaning enabling pure UEFI is not required. They're not even adding a comment like YMMV
As far as GOP, if you need / want pure UEFI Secure Boot enabled, then you need a GOP module for your AMD or Nvidia GPU. WinRaid and MSI are just two sites where they've said that
(edited)
Uncola
1 Rookie
1 Rookie
•
14 Posts
0
January 26th, 2024 23:02
A little input would be appreciated on what might be going on with my replacement Asus card swap out
First I disabled secure boot in the boot tab of F2 Bios settings with the Dell GTX 1060 installed. PC Booted up fine. Next, I downloaded (not installed) the GTX-1660 Ti display driver.
I disconnected from internet, shut down, booted in windows.
When I uninstall a graphics driver I typically go under msconfig, on the boot tab, and check safe boot. Then reboot in safe mode and uninstall the display driver. Not everybody does . . . I do
Uninstalled the GTX 1060 display driver in safe mode. Unchecked the safe boot box in msconfig and re-started to save changes.Back in normal Windows I checked device manager and the Microsoft display adapter driver successfully installed.
I shut down, swapped cards and connected the 6+2 pin power connector to the 1660 ti. Made sure it was seated securely in the pcie slot. Connected the dp 1.4 cable from the Dell monitor to the new Asus card
Started up to install the downloaded driver for the 1660 Ti and there's no screen. No Dell logo at startup. Just a blank screen
Any input would be welcome.
Thanks
(edited)
Uncola
1 Rookie
1 Rookie
•
14 Posts
0
January 26th, 2024 23:56
Some specs on the Asus GTX-1660 Ti
(edited)
ProfessorW00d
4 Operator
4 Operator
•
2.1K Posts
0
January 26th, 2024 23:58
@Uncola try clearing CMOS by removing the CR2032 coin cell battery and holding in the power button for 30 seconds
Uncola
1 Rookie
1 Rookie
•
14 Posts
0
January 27th, 2024 00:18
@ProfessorW00d
I'll give it a try
Cannot see though the association of clearing CMOS for a card swap. You'd think another card wouldn't make a difference
(edited)
Uncola
1 Rookie
1 Rookie
•
14 Posts
0
January 27th, 2024 02:44
cleared (didn't reset) the CMOS removing the battery and then holding the power button to discharge any flea power.
Just changed the battery 3- 1/2 yrs ago
the power button NOW blinks Amber 5 times which it didn't before
so according to https://www.dell.com/support/manuals/en-us/xps-8930-desktop/xps-8930-service-manual/diagnostics?guid=guid-67f3bb39-3728-4f40-9b0c-30883adb6fc0&lang=en-us
5 blinks is a CMOS battery failure
yeah, sure
But I'll pick up a new one tomorrow ANYWAY
Anyone know how to pull off that tiny little blue password jumper from the pins to reset the CMOS? Tweezers probably slip right off
(edited)
ProfessorW00d
4 Operator
4 Operator
•
2.1K Posts
0
January 27th, 2024 03:23
@Uncola system configuration information is stored on a kernel for faster startup. Your configuration has changed and your system is confused. Erase the memory kernel (clear CMOS) and your system will store the new configuration on the next boot-up . . . in super oversimplified terms.
ProfessorW00d
4 Operator
4 Operator
•
2.1K Posts
0
January 27th, 2024 03:26
@Uncola fortunately the CR2032 battery is probably the least expensive part in your computer.
Uncola
1 Rookie
1 Rookie
•
14 Posts
0
January 27th, 2024 16:00
Installed a brand new battery. The power button still blinks amber 5 times.
FWIW, power did come on itself to the PC when I plugged the power cord in last after having all other cables connected. Didn't touch the power button
I'm using the 6+2 pin connectors (the ones pictured on the bottom)
The power supply is fine
Not sure what's going on but it's becoming frustrating
[Edit] : the last time I changed the CMOS battery, as best as I remember, the bios settings didn't reset to default
If the settings reset to default after changing the battery and draining residual power with the power button, would checking the BIOS settings to see whether secure boot might be enabled be worth it ? On the first boot attempt with the Asus card, I don't believe the power button ever blinked and I had never removed the battery.
Or would doing a reset with the blue password jumper moved to the CMOS pins and moved back again to the original pins be the next step? I'm sure that would definitely reset the bios to default settings
(edited)
ProfessorW00d
4 Operator
4 Operator
•
2.1K Posts
0
January 27th, 2024 18:17
@Uncola That is quite a peculiar result. I don't think clearing CMOS restores BIOS setting to default. I would put your OEM graphics card back in, take the CR2032 battery out, and power up to the CMOS battery failure. Then put the CR2032 battery back in and power up again, maybe 2 or 3 attempts if not successful at first. If you have a battery tester confirm that your new battery actually has power.