Dell G5 5090 PSU Upgrade

Re: I asked the service reps on the site whether the same adapter would work with a Dell G5 5090, and on two separate occasions they said that yes, it would. 

I would be extra cautious and wait until it is verified.  Just by word of mouth is not enough warranty to safeguard the motherboard from wrong pinout.  If you have a way to test the voltage of stock psu connected to 6 pin header, then ask Moddiy for optiplex 6 pinout to compare.  But not sure if they would consider it intellectual property and not disclose to customer.

Moddiy shows you a representation of the "adapter" not what you actually get.  They do this because there are counterfeiters who will make junk to sell you that will fry everything. The other ISSUE is that the G5 is not Single 6 pin and there is not currently MODDIY Adapter for the G5 or the XPS 8940.

The 6 or 8 pin has been figured out for 9020 and INSPIRON 3670 etc. Been there Done that.  Use moddiy and you are done. There may be others who can do it but Im too lazy to go thru the work Raph did.

You can build your own based on the work that Raph did but there are 6 connectors to convert not just 1 24 pin.

This is NOT a passive wire pass thru.  It has to convert 5vSB to 12vSB and other things.  This is not a sound byte I know what is being done and why but I'm not going to walk you thru making your own.   The Moddiy Adapters work fine in my machines.  YMMV

https://raphtec.wordpress.com/projects/dell-poweredge-t20-atx-power-supply-adapter/

RTX SERIES cards have 2 X 8 pin or a single 12 pin connector.  If 200 to 300w was enough then a single 8 pin connector should be fine. That's the PCI Sig 1.0 standard from 2004.

6 or 8 pin is well definedSlot power is not one and done specification either. LOW PROFILE Cards are 25W max based on the spec

These limits are IEEE and UL Safety Standards

Note the annotation sum of the draw this means COMBINED POWER.

Why is this?

Because the cards use 450W of input power.

This is also why the FSP Booster AUX video power supply is rated at 450W.

Each 8 Pin Connector is rated at 12.5 AMPS 12v    18 AMPS = ABSOLUTE MAX POWER HOUSE ON FIRE safety rating.

Each 6 Pin Connector is rated for 6.25 AMPS 12v so it takes 2X 6 pin to make a single 8 PIN.

Why is this?  Because 6 pin provides 75W and 8 pin taking 2 of them provides 150W

The other 75W comes from the X16 Slot.  

What does this mean? 

It means your card needs 375W of power and can spike to 450W on the 12v rails.

If your power supply can provide  24 AMPS 3.3v and 17 Amps 5v and 4 amps 5vsb

and 50AMPS on the 12v rails SIMULTANEOUSLY Combined You are fine.

What does this mean.

VOLTS X AMPS = OUTPUT WATTS.  80 percent efficient means it takes 20 percent more power than you put in to get 80 percent out.

What does this mean?  It means 720W INPUT gives 600W output

60 AMPS 12v = 50 AMPS output.

And thats just for the 12v rail.

3.3v/5v combined should be AT LEAST 140W to 170w per EPS12v 2.92

24 AMPS X  3,3 volts = 80 WATTS output

17 AMPS X 5.0 volts =85 WATTS output

80 + 85 = 165 W combined for 3.3v/5v rail

So you need 600W from 12v rails and 165W from 3.3v/5v rails and 20W from 5VSB

Thats 795W combined output power. 

Keep in mind that these are ABSOLUTE BARE Minimum RUN AT 100 percent MAX ratings.

This is why 850W is bare minimum recommended to use the dual 8 pin or 12 pin aux power connector.

My 1080 TI has 1 8 pin and 1 6 pin and my 900W mac pro power supply has issues unless I add a 220W dell power brick to use as aux power supply for the 8 pin connector.

If you want to dispute any of this be prepared to show your work and provide documentation for how you decided these standards are invalid.

My numbers are based on IEEE, UL, CSA, VDE, FCC, Energy Star, standards and safety ratings.

Interesting discussion and very interesting information regarding conversion of 24 to 8 pin connectors. If I were you, I'd wait until January, when nVidia is supposed to release RTX 3050 and 3050ti cards. While nVidia hasn't confirmed yet, if past history holds, these will be cards that can simply use the existing 75 watt PCI slot (so you can use Dell's stock PSU). The RTX 3050 cards are reported to have excellent performance. Good luck. 

@speedstep 

I am not looking to dispute any of what you said. The whole purpose of the post was to figure out perhaps better ways to go about the project. I appreciate you going into depth with this, as I honestly did not know about most of the stuff you mentioned beforehand. I see it is much more complex than previously thought.

I do know that the 3060 Ti needs just one 8-pin connector which it converts to Nvidia's new mini 12-pin connector. I believe the higher models require up to 350W but the 3060 Ti is rated at 200W. From my understanding Dell sells up to the OEM 2080 Super and an i9-9900K with the 460W PSU, though I suspect it may be massively undervolted to work.

Even then if we look at my system in particular would we not come under the requirement with enough overhead? In the breakdown I'm estimating i5-9400 pulls 100W maximum (Rated 65W TDP), and the 3060 Ti has been benchmarked running up to 220W (Rated 200 TDP) on a max load (Gamers Nexus). Assuming we are at peak load, that's about 320W usage, which leaves us 140W for memory, misc, or any spikes. Based on what you said, the PCIe slot can pull 75 Watts, and then the 8-pin would give another 150 Watts, so the maximum the card could draw would be 225W. Plus I've heard in a typical gaming scenario either the GPU or CPU tends to be underused as a result of bottleneck or the way the game is optimized. 

Again, this is not to refute any of what you said, I'm here to learn. Based on what you said best case scenario for me would be waiting for the 3050 series to know for sure it could be powered safely by my G5. This is more so to better understand the limitations of my system or figure out if there's a better option that could work.

Thanks!

I do know that the 3060 Ti needs just one 8-pin connector which it converts to Nvidia's new mini 12-pin connector.

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/30-series/rtx-3060-ti/

The 600W they reference is 12v  50 AMPS.  You cant use all of the power for 12v and give nothing to the other rails.

225W to 300W with 6 pin or 8 pin connector goes all the way back to PCI-E PCI sig  version 1.0 from 2004 which is 16 years ago. Video cards do not operate on a single rail and draw power at a constant rate.  Dual 8 pin or 12 pin connector means the card draws 300W with spikes up to 450W.   12v  37.5 AMPS  This is why I recommend power supply with 140 to 225W combined for 3.3v/5v rails and 50 AMPS aka 600W for the 12v rails Minimum continuous output. 12v 18 amps absolute max for a connector is one of the safety redlines.  8 pin connectors are designed to provide 12v  12.5 Amps max.  6 pin is 12v 6.25 Amps max. Which is why safe adapters require 2X  6 pin input for 1 8 pin output.  Aka 4X 6 pin connectors required for 2 X 8 pin.

That's also why the AUX VIDEO power supply FSP booster is 450w because less than that doesn't actually support 2 X 6 pin connectors for VIDEO CARD ONLY power.

CPU 8 pin IS NOT GPU 8 PINBare minimum recommended for 3000 series cardsSINGLE 8 pin good to 375WPOWER SUPPL:Y IIS MORE THAN JUST 12v OR A SINGLE SPEC OF WATTS

I'm not sure to whom you are referring, but it's not just about the PCIe-16 slot being able to deliver only 75 watts. What is important for you and your constraints is the fact that any card that has a separate power plug simply cannot be used with the Dell PS. It's that simple. So, you can go through all the calculations you want and still arrive at the same place unless you can figure out how to convert 24 to 8 (and use a new power supply).

This is actually really interesting stuff, honestly I wouldn't know how to interpret the breakdown provided on the PSU before. The Dell 460W PSU delivers 18A on the 12V rail which is sub-par and should only be 216W; not even close to being safe for any intense power spike I'm assuming. 

If anything I might have to aim way lower like in the RTX 2060 or 1660 Ti range. I'm hoping Nvidia ends up launching the 3050 Ti but any specs for that are just rumours right now so I wouldn't hold my breath.

I attached a photo of the specs for the exact PSU I have, do you think there's any feasible GPU upgrade that's doable over the 1650 I currently have?

This thread is very interesting because I am currently going through the same issue, trying to figure out a way to get a larger PSU to work with my Dell G5 5090.  I am looking to upgrade from an RTX 2060 to hopefully a 3060ti, but am concerned about the power supply. Currently I have the 460 watt psu, and I have seen that you can get a slight upgrade to 500 watts with a proprietary supply, but I would like 600 to 700 watts tho.  Dell really has  the consumer with this design, and not providing a viable upgrade option for future upgrades. I wish I had known all the issues with the G5 5090 before I spent $1500 on a computer.  I seriously thought that there would be some wiggle room for upgrades but I guess i didnt research enough before I spent the money.  I would consider buying a RTX 2070 super or 2080 but even those cards are gonna be limited by power, even tho Dell sells systems with them as options.  DELL PLEASE!

@B BladesPC 

Yeah man I totally understand your frustration. When I bought this I didn't know too much about computers. I started learning out of interest and realized how badly I up after LOL. I really wish Dell comes up with some kind of fix for this as they advertised the G5 being Upgradeable.

Hopefully there's a viable option, maybe @speedstep  might know, he's really knowledgeable. Otherwise I guess I'll be building my own PC in the next 6/7 years when I upgrade again. Live and learn I guess? 

you and me both man haha.  This was my first desktop pc, and I went with Dell because my Uncle, who is a computer tech, recommended them, only problem is he knows nothing about gaming systems.  I was going to build my own for my first pc but my uncle didnt think it was a good idea because I wanted an AMD cpu and he isnt too fond of AMD.  Man, if there was a power supply upgrade alot of the problems would be dissolved.

092WNC is the 460W unit not the 500W unit.

Dell OEM cards are clocked and designed to not overstress the OEM power supply.

It does not come with Dual 8 pin connectors it has 5 total connectors and everything else goes to the motherboard.

Its a tiny stick of a power supply.  Therefore a  gpu that uses 225w and Spikes to 375W is not a good Idea for this power supply.  1650 is fine because its a 75W max card

Slot power

460W 092WNC

https://www.batteryclub.org/Goods/DEL17515_SE-D500E005P-Dell-Adapter.html

would this fit and work in the g5 5090?

is it worth upgrading from 450w psu? Want to run a 2080 with i5 9400.

thanks a lot

@speedstep 

I know it is a 460W Power Supply. I can read the label just fine. Secondly, I asked you about UPGRADE options that were possible, not whether or not the 1650 I already had was fine. Also, you need to realize that you don't NEED 2 x 8-pin cables for the new 30 series cards. Those are only for the 3080 and above. The 3070 and below ship with a SINGLE 8-pin to Nvidia Mini 12-pin connector. 

The PSU according to the label says it can deliver 216W on the 12V rail (12V x 18A) Plus 75W Max on the PCIe 16-pin slot for a total of 291W possible for any GPU. Based on that I'd say a safe estimate is a GPU rated at 160-180W max power draw. This would allow almost a margin of a little over 100W for spikes, which should be sufficient headroom. 

@fhill 

I believe you're confusing the Power Supply's Motherboard Connector with the GPU Connector.

You do realize that the Dell OEM Power Supply comes with an additional PCIe 8 Pin and 6 Pin connector, right? It can draw from the main slot on the PCIe 16-pin motherboard, PLUS the additional 6+8 pin cables should it be needed. As long as it's within the PSU's limit, you should be able to upgrade the GPU just fine. 

There are 4 versions of the 500W

5K7J8 500W Delta
99TPH 500W Liteon
Y7R0X 500W Chicony
2VD0G 360W Liteon

https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/parts-upgrades/ar/7566

Given Covid and it being Just before Christmas I doubt any are available from Dell Spare Parts.

@DELL-Chris M  might have more information YMMV

Purchase or upgrade, accessories, or replacement parts

1-800-357-3355

There are ZERO retail cards that Dell supports or validates.

Video cards
GPCKW MSI GeForce RTX 2070 Super, 8GB DDR6
G7CH1 MSI GeForce RTX 2060 Super, 8GB DDR6,
DHRKF MSI GeForce RTX 2060, 6GB DDR6,
KPNXF MSI GeForce GTX 1660 Ti, 6GB DDR6,
7MKYT MSI GeForce GTX 1660 Super, 6GB DDR5
4WY5P ECS GeForce GTX 1650 Super, 4GB DDR5
7HNWN ECS GeForce GT 1030, 2GB DDR5

8CCF1  GeForce GT 1030, 2GB DDR5

NH5PX MSI RX 5600 XT, 6GB DDR6