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power switch for A51 R3?
ditched the AMD threadripper's original case some time ago...kept what I think are most of the components.
Now the mobo links to the front IO board via a 10-pin front panel cable to the group of the pins for the power, hd led, reset etc.
The problem now is that the power switch is not directly on the FIO board??
Is there a way to bypass the front IO board and just plug the current case's pin connectors onto the mobo?
or is my mobo useless now?
thanks
Cass-Ole
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November 16th, 2017 00:00
Interesting Indeed. So I was right.
Evil Alien Proprietary Technology
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I see now that these aren't simply 'white USB headers', I can kind of see the side 'clips' also
Let's begin here. The Front Panel1 Cable (#16), I'll call it FP16. Do us a favor & post the part# of that cable. I'd call Dell Spare Parts & buy another FP16 cable, which you can put back into the R3 case if need be, you could then work with the one you have & possibly even modify it (See section below 'Modify a spare FP16 cable -or- Modify a 10pin JST')
The 'pitch', the spacing between pins of a basic DuPont 5x5 USB is 2.54mm, (I think). DuPonts come in many pin-count sizes, and, so do JST 'PH' connectors, which I suspect are 2.0mm pitch (when in doubt, try a 2.0 + 2.54 pitch)
JST PH / PHD Series 10pin (Dual-Row part# PHDR-10VS) Female 2.0mm pitch, it's an older type without 'clips'
I do not know the spacing or pitch of this new white type of header, however, I assume your case is using the 2pin DuPont insulators (sometimes you'll see 1pins) - if so - if you can manage to fit AT LEAST the Power Switch on there > then do so
I mean, do not force it or them on to the point you ruin the white plastic
If they won't go on there, you have the option to use FP16, which we know is the correct connector to use
this 5x5 would make a good coupling at the FIO end of FP16
place your new case connections on the correct pins as defined by the FIO header, and FIO end of your cable of course
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Other Ideas: a bridging cable between FP16 & new case wiring
buy a basic front panel extender cable, buy a reel of 10 Male DuPont pin terminals
remove the unwanted female pins, crimp on the males > make your own double-ended Male cable
plug one end into your case wiring, the other end into FP16
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Buy pre-made 1pin dbl-ended males
30cm HQ Dupont Cable 1p-1p connector Wire Jumper Cord male To male For Arduino
https://www.ebay.com/itm/30cm-HQ-Dupont-Cable-1p-1p-connector-Wire-Jumper-Cord-male-To-male-For-Arduino/172974779824?hash=item284619adb0:m:mb_8Xd56YFQv2z4vORioAJw
double ended male-to-male 2pin that may match new case insulators (Pwr/LED/HDD LED/RESET), buy x5
2 PIN Male to Male Dupont / Arduino Jumper Connector 22ga WIRE Pigtail, Prototype Breadboard, 10 Inches long
https://www.elliottelectronicsupply.com/2-pin-male-to-male-dupont-arduino-jumper-connector-22ga-wire-pigtail-prototype-breadboard-10-inches-long.html
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Is it safe to test without a CPU? Yes. And leave the protective cover on. You will not get a Bios screen
Is there risk of shorting the mobo if I make a mistake in the connection? Not really, panel headers are pretty safe. If you go to your R3, place FP16 onto the FIO, you can make a chart based on wire colors of what goes where, since the FIO has printed text of what wire colors are used for PwrSwLEDHDDLEDRESET, trace the wires down to the white end, figure out what the white pins are for that way
Do you see Password Clear?
That's basic printed text that explains things, what disturbs me about the evil technology is that there is no printed text for the owner or technician to go by. My R1 motherboard has printed text above and below its header plus a large Box Chart (like the password clear box, but it's bigger). Do you see any printed text anywhere in that area or a chart??? Truly evil if there is none, like they don't want u to know
***Can you post a closeup of the FP16 inserted into this white header? And another of just the cable with a good look at the white end? Something that shows the side 'clips'. That might be a basic 5x5 / 10pin / 2x5 JST connector, I'll need time to look into this new connector & header. I expect to help you find a decent more elegant solution to this over the next 24-48hours, bear with me and we'll get this solved one way or another. I may make edits to this post as I do so, they would be placed at the bottom of this post as they happen
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New Edits & Updates
confirm your case has some form of these, if not, show what you have
5x5 'older' JST header = 1/2" wide (1.27cm)
A component here has a 5x5 JST connector header, similar to what you showed but without side 'clips'. I've inserted a basic 2pin DuPont 'power sw' connector, it makes good contact. Once it is in there, it leaves no room for more, at least not for pins close to it. If I were you, I'd begin by inserting your case's pwr sw 2pin into the correct place, test for function
Visible in the bottom left half of photo is a USB 5x5
The change to this new design is intentional, particularly the new FP16 connector / cable > it is there to thwart people from placing a new motherboard Into their R3 R4 case later down the road, once the inability to easily adapt to 'normal headers' confounds them
- The Plot Thickens -
Since the FIO USB connector is also 'proprietary', how will R3 R4 owners swap in a new motherboard easily?
R3 / R4 case owners wanting to swap in an aftermarket (Asus / MSI etc) motherboard would buy or use an R2 Panel1 cable or a basic USB 5x5 of sufficient length (see photo of my R2 Panel 1 cable, which is a basic USB cable), while R2 owners need a work-around for both the new front panel connector and the new FIO USB connector
Update: I emailed JST.com w/your photo, maybe they can ID the connector type
New Idea: Modify a SPARE FP16 cable -or- Modify a 10pin JST
If an R3 owner buys a spare FP16 cable, they can modify it as below
photo of JST PH or PHD 10pin female
We're in the midst of trying to ID the new connector, but until it is ID'd, if a person could find one of these JST 5x5's with wires attached, & if it fit, they could 'make' their own an adapter > keep the white end, keep a few inches of wire & add new pins to the ends
buy 10 male DuPont pins, buy (or find) an empty 5x5 USB
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Hand-Made Adapter
In my spare modding parts box, I assume that with these basic parts & a spare 5x5 JST 10pin (top), I could widdle out a 1inch adapter by crimping male pins onto the end of the wires, use the insulators to interface w/new case wiring, 20minute project. It'd be way better if I had new male pins here, I don't, so I'd buy some ... again, if you could purchase a spare FP16 cable, some male pins + insulators, you could make your own mini-adapter there also. The black 5x5 USB (bottom) would work just as good if I did not have the 1pin 2pin types, thereby making a 1inch replica version of FP16 but with male pins instead which would readily couple to your case wiring insulators
Update
JST.com can't ID connector unless there's a JST marking on it, they also want to know if the pitch is 2.0mm or 2.5mm, can you check? Pitch is the distance between the center of each pin, pitch can be measured from the FP16 cable white connector end. My MIO board (similar to FIO board) has over a dozen JST headers on it, none of which has a marking, so this may be a dead-end question, or MSI has used a JST knock-off header, or both
Cass-Ole
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November 15th, 2017 00:00
To you the reader, this 1st post doesn't apply, but does lend a base to work with concerning the NEW 'proprietary' (non-standard) motherboard front panel connector cable + header in R3 R4. There is also a new matching proprietary USB connector cable + header. The front panel cable / connector & motherboard front panel 'header' contain the (male or female) pins for Power On Switch / Power On LED / HDD LED / (RESET). Here, I go over the old 'normal' R2 front panel. I didn't know the R3 R4 have been redesigned > they have been. The redesign is intentional, in order to thwart your swap intentions. Skip to my next post where I discuss ways to deal with the new FP connector & header. This will be a useful even monumental discussion, if you either take your R3 R4 motherboard out and transfer it to a new case which is common, or of course, try to swap in a new motherboard into your R3 R4 case if you want to upgrade to new aftermarket retail hardware / CPU next year and later (MSI / Asus / Auros / AsRock etc)
For what it's worth, the R3 R4 motherboard are custom made for Dellware by MSI / MicroStar
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moarcoars I'm going to whip up a post that helps everyone, & put it all in one spot
Panel1 Cable #16 ... let's start with a few pics
Some of these might be pre-production motherboard photos, you'll have to confirm if yours looks like this
Question: does the Panel1 Cable go directly to FIO's (duplicate) front panel header (#7 in Chart)?
My understanding would be it does, and if so, this is how the R2 is wired also
extreme close-ups appear to show a basic 5x5 Dupont USB-type header
the R4's section shows USB1 (12) >< Panel (13) >< USB2 (14)
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" The problem now is that the power switch is not directly on the FIO board?? "
it never was ... power switch is external and comes through #11 on our prior FIO Chart
FIO relays the on signal to motherboard, over Panel 1 cable
in the good old days, R2 had a rear FIO board
whose front panel header pinout is identical to the R2s' motherboard front panel header pinout
R2 FIO & motherboard 'pinout' is explained above & seen below
as seen on R2 board, micro-text explains what the pins are for, & matches the diagram we saw
Part# 3DVC4 ~10" / 4cm
a 'front panel cable' runs from R2 FIO to motherboard
R3 R4 owners who swap a new retail motherboard into their case must use this type (Asus / MSI / AsRock etc)
toss your R3/R4 type in a box, it won't be compatible w/normal JFP1 5x5 / 10x10 front panel headers
you'll need two of them, one for front panel duty, one for FIO USB duty
Because FIO / motherboard have identical headers, R2's Panel1 cable is a one-to-one pinout, example: LED+ on motherboard header connects to LED+ on FIO board, each end of the panel cable is like a twin of itself
- if 10inch R2 3DVC4 Panel Cable is too short, buy a longer 20" USB cable instead, see below -
USB 2.0 Motherboard Header 9-Pin Female to Female Cable 20" Black
https://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-2-0-Motherboard-Header-9-Pin-Female-to-Female-Cable-20-Black/332050392585?hash=item4d4fbee609:g:AX0AAOSwB09YRy2z
was
normally, above is one way to treat the wire / connector job
below is how we treat wiring in some R1 motherboard swaps
above, 2pin insulators are found in most aftermarket retail cases
below we see a typical front panel header extender cable
Duttek 1M/3.3Ft 10 Pin Motherboard PCB Cable Male to Female Header Extender M/F
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Duttek-1M-3-3Ft-10-Pin-Motherboard-PCB-Cable-Male-to-Female-Header-Extender-M-F/172919042311?hash=item2842c73107:g:Tx4AAOSwJs1Z3VCB
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Time to Appraise the Situation
I see no difference between the R2 panel header & the R3, except R2 has an open header, R3 is a closed (plastic) header
In one sense, if you can ID the motherboard front panel header pins, your new case wiring should just plug in there
In another sense, so long as the Front Panel1 Cable #16 is a basic 5x5 dupont USB-type connector, you can
Or, back the white one off of Panel1 Cable #16 and re-use it > retrofit it to your case wiring by backing off those insulators and plugging the bare pins into it
You can buy the front panel header extender cable we just saw, mate your new wiring to the male pins
re-use panel1 cable #16, buy a bridge, above, mate new wiring to FIO end of #16
idea: force insulator into middle, makes a perfect coupler, 2.54mm pitch (standard DuPont 5x5 pitch)
http://www.king-cart.com/cgi-bin/cart.cgi?store=phoenixent&product_name=HWS1334&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4s6v1_DA1wIVyxuBCh0XYwPfEAQYAyABEgI6D_D_BwE
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Until you say different, I'm going to assume that the new case has individual 2pin insulators as seen above, since most aftermarket cases come that way. If so, just plug them into the header ... ... ...
Or, transfer a 5x5 onto your new case wiring > you take a needle & lift the plastic tabs up - back the pins out - and transfer them over to a 5x5 connector as an easy solution. How or where you get a 5x5 is up to you:
The photos I posted here showing the pinout of the FIO board & a normal MSI front panel header may or may not be accurate for your new R3 front panel1 header. The FIO board inside your case is accurate, so, try to deduce Pwr Switch, LED +/-, HDD LED +/-, Reset from the FIO end of the cable's wires by color, example: if FIO LED + is a red wire, then the pin inside the motherboard frontpanel header uses the red wire for LED + ... if LED - is orange, the same applies at the other end of the cable, understand? Wire your new 5x5 to duplicate what's happening at the white connector end of Panel 1 Cable #16, by using the FIO board (and its cable / connector end) to help ID those wires, what they're for, what they do
moarcoars
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November 15th, 2017 13:00
first of all, thank you for your in-depth answer
haha your original edit/post was actually more helpful
"power switch comes through #11 on our prior FIO Chart
FIO relays the on signal to motherboard, over Panel 1 cable"
yes I suspected it was another connection to the power switch, which I no longer have for #11 labeled "LOGO1"
so my idea is to bypass and forget the FIO altogether (doesn't fit in my case natively without mods)
The R3's MSI X399 mobo #16 labeled "PANEL1" has 10-pins but is not JFP1. It's similar to a USB header but has clips on the side...proprietary?
(sorry for the disgusting dust bunnies in the photo)
I am thinking of just forcing my case's JFP1 connectors (power sw, reset sw, hd led) into #16 and color match each wire to the appropriate pins as if it were a JFP1 header. Thoughts?
Is there risk of shorting the mobo if I make a mistake in the connection?
I also don't have the CPU on hand. Is it safe to test without a CPU? Should I leave the protective covering on it when testing? I'm paranoid about bending any of the 4094 pins...
moarcoars
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November 16th, 2017 23:00
thank you again
jammed power sw & reset sw into #16....broke a portion of the plastic header but zero ducks given as it works
the pitch as you had predicted are a lot tighter...couldn't fit the LED connectors
not going to bother with the USB header when there's 10 in the back
-1 to Dell for making proprietary junk
no offense if you're on Dell's payroll
much appreciated your feedback...Cheers.
Cass-Ole
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November 17th, 2017 08:00
little (color & missing pins) panel / USB info in this grainy review pic, but it isn't clear enough
With a Photoshop or Micro$oft Paint type program, can you make us a chart of what the pin headers are for using this as a basis you can modify, possibly lend color to the pins, relative to what the white connector end of the cable wires up as
Or can you use the photo below, and make a chart, colorized, of both the white end and black end
Below I've made a sample chart of what the R2 Panel1 cable presents as, as a guide
You're welcome to take a photo identical to above of your FP16 cable & create your own color chart; after you've posted, I can modify it if need be as an explanatory tool for others. Also, if I can get my hands on a dual-row 5x5 JST, I may make a prototype adapter cable here using your info / wire color chart / photo etc as a visual guide etc
If you aren't sure yet which pins are for Pwr LED / HDD LED, I can get that by reverse-engineering from the FIO end of the cable, so long as I know the wire colors I can solve for X at the white end
Last, can post the part# of both the FP16 cable and the FIO USB cable (which are unused still in your case) or make sure they're part of any photo you post / work with; R2 buyers wanting to buy the R3 R4 mthrbrd can't get far without either of those cables. From there, you could contact Dell with those part #'s, see if they're available and of course try to incorporate them into your build if they are > I'm satisfied I posted numerous ways for you to make a bridge that could connect both the FP16 + FIO USB cables to your case wiring > maybe I didn't make the best presentation ever composed, but, it's a free bread crumb trail at least. There's no rush, pitch in if you can / when you can
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Worth Repeating
R3 R4 Owners: in a few years or less, you may wish to remove your motherboard and try an aftermarket board like Asus MSI Auros etc > these new white JST connectors will not mate up to 'normal' retail boards that use basic 5x5 USB headers. You would TOSS these white JST cables (measure their length 1st) & purchase new (20" or whatever) internal USB 2.0 cables like below > they will connect to your FIO board & route to new motherboard front panel header (for power on) and the USB2.0 header (for AlienFx Lights). You may need to 'rearrange wires' so that new motherboard front panel header integrates to the FIO JFP1 header pins (consult your owner's manual)
Duttek 1M/3.3Ft 10 Pin Motherboard PCB Cable Male to Female Header Extender M/F
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Duttek-1M-3-3Ft-10-Pin-Motherboard-PCB-Cable-Male-to-Female-Header-Extender-M-F/172919042311?hash=item2842c73107:g:Tx4AAOSwJs1Z3VCB
R2 Owners: if you buy an R3 R4 motherboard as an upgrade over your old X99, your Panel1 cable (3DVC4) and USB1 cable (3RK0N) would need an extensive mod in order to work (which is why this post exists). It would be far easier to contact Dell and purchase the new R3 or R4 cable pair with the special JST-type ends on them; if they're unavailable, you'd need to hand-make some kind of adapter in order to overcome Evil Alien Proprietary Technology
Cheers @MoreCores