Aurora R10, tripping AFCI circuit breaker

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@bkfc95 wrote:

The only way for me to run this without any problems is for the computer to be the sole electronic (with a monitor) plugged into the entire circuit. Even turning on the lights will cause the breaker to trip.

by moving the desktop to the living room, which has a 15 amp breaker (non-AFCI). Ramping up the system with the added load of a flat screen TV, christmas tree, a fan and multiple lights failed to trip the circuit breaker. 

 How is the quality of Alienware PSU? Is it worth trying to replace the PSU with a third party one? Or should I just return this computer?

 

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OK, to recap, when nothing else is on the AFCI circuit, no problems.

In the living room without a AFCI circuit, no problems.

I would rate the Alienware  power supplies around 8 on a scale of 1-10.  They are well made and reliable.

Unless your psu is defective or in your opinion under-powered, I would not replace it to try to solve this problem.

Returning the computer is up to you...however, I have two suggestions...

1. According to a Siemens spokesperson, "The majority of the time, these breakers trip because they are supposed to. They are tripping due to some type of arcing event on the circuit."

This can especially be true with "stab" receptacles, where wires are spring-loaded into the backs of the receptacles, instead of wiring around screws, which provide firm connections. In many instances, according to Bryant, when homeowners jam plugs into spring-loaded receptacles or pull them out roughly, it jostles the receptacles, allowing the wires to come loose, which will cause the arc fault breakers to trip.

"Again, this is not 'nuisance tripping," she said. "It is a 'safety alert.'"

So, there may be a problem with the receptacle (outlet) in the bedroom.

2. Each time the breaker trips, it's the same as yanking the computers power cord out of the wall socket, which causes untold problems with the computer.  I always have my desktop plugged into a Universal Power Supply of adequate wattage.  If the power goes out due to a sudden storm or breaker tripping, no problem, I have time to properly shut down the computer.  A proper quality UPS should smooth out any voltage or current irregularities between the computer and the mains power.  Just a suggestion.  

One last thought, don't forget you need a pure sine wave ups for a desktop pc.  Just any ups would not do. 

Thanks for the response. I would not say that the PSU is underpowered. It's the 1000W option, and given the spec of the PC, it should not require anywhere near that amount of power (using the power estimator here https://outervision.com/power-supply-calculator it estimated that my PC should have a load wattage of ~400W. Whether or not the PSU is defective is beyond me to find out. The self test button returns a green light, and there are no observed power issues when running on a non-AFCI circuit. I'm not sure if there is any way for me to know if the PSU is legitimately arcing. 

I have heard that a fully online UPS might solve this issue, by isolating the computer's power supply completely from the building's power circuit. However, I've also read that the UPS themselves tend to not play well with these arc fault tripping circuits either (https://www.apc.com/ca/en/faqs/FA369034/). For now I've alerted the landlord to this, and hopefully a competent electrician will be able to see if there are any obvious flaws within the circuit/breaker itself. There seems to be a big split between electricians who on one side say that AFCI "nuisance" trips are a myth, and another who call the whole technology rubbish and unnecessary. If the circuit is ok I'll probably try installing a third party PSU (any tips on how easy this would be?), and if that doesn't fix it I will probably return this unit.

Unfortunately the place I'm living in only has 1 AFCI circuit, which is the bedroom. I don't have another high powered computer to test on this circuit either. Are you sure about the return policy? The dell online shop stated on their page (https://www.dell.com/en-ca/shop/dell-rewards-program/cp/free-shipping-easy-returns-ca) that I should be able to return it without added fees. I'll be pretty disappointed if this turns out to be a lie. 

Landlord has an electrician coming by to have a look at the circuit tomorrow. If no issues are found I don't see any other way to prove if there's an issue with the PSU other than to try a different one. At least the restocking fee for that wouldn't be too bad  . If it turns out that the alternate PSU raises no issue I think that should be evidence enough for a legitimate return. Anyway I really hope that it turns out to be an issue with the circuit breaker, this computer has otherwise impressed me.

Do you have another AFCI device you can plug your system into to verify if its an incompatibility issue.  If it works fine on a different AFCI device you can rule out incompatibity, that may be a lot easier than replacing the psu to test a theory.

Keep in mind the return period is 30 days from invoice date, not delivery date like amazon.  Also, if there is nothing wrong with the pc you'll get charged a restocking fee.  I don't think the circuit breaker trip would qualify for a free return.

@Doghouse Reilly  Thanks for your input, I'll have a look into pure sine wave UPSes.

@bkfc95 

Yeah, plus you're in Canada so not sure if the laws are different there but they usually apply it to US desktop pc orders.  Maybe for Christmas they have special rules for the easy return program.  Anyway, my suggestion was really getting at if you do decide to go the return route, it might be worthwhile to fully test the pc to see if there is a defect that would qualify.  If might not be hard to find an overheating or noise issue for example.

As an aside, I had the same problem you're describing at one of my properties and it turned out the arcing was at the fuse box- the fuse was just loose so it was arcing at the loose connection.  It was an easy fix.

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@bkfc95 wrote:

If the circuit is ok I'll probably try installing a third party PSU (any tips on how easy this would be?), and if that doesn't fix it I will probably return this unit.

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To quote the folks at APC, "There are thousands of successful installations of UPS and computer equipment with GFI/AFCI, however every application and load is different."  Another way of saying, "A UPS may solve your problem, but if it doesn't; don't get mad at us! 

Regarding changing out a 1000 Watt Dell PSU, please refer to my humble adventures...

https://www.dell.com/community/Alienware-Desktops/Aurora-R9-Adventures-with-power-supplies/m-p/7720150#M34145https://www.dell.com/community/Alienware-Desktops/Aurora-R9-Adventures-with-power-supplies/m-p/7720150#M34145 

Since I am in the camp of "you should have a proper computer UPS anyway", I would try that before changing anything in what seems to be a perfectly good computer.

Best of luck!

@r72019 It does also say that:

"From time to time Dell may advertise an easy returns program that does not include an administration fee for Home and Home Office consumer customers, in which case, there will be no administrative fee in those instances. Notwithstanding the foregoing, all television returns are subject to a fifteen percent (15%) restocking fee."

I guess its not particularly clear if the asterisk in their page means that this is NOT an advertised easy returns program... Sneaky.

@bkfc95  Yes, it's explained on the link you had above.  Click the "learn more" text in your link and it says:

"POLICY

30-Day Return Period for Certain Hardware, Software Products and Accessories:

Except as provided below, all hardware, accessories, peripherals, parts may be returned to Dell up to 30 days from the date on the packing slip or invoice for a credit or a refund of the purchase price paid, less shipping and handling and any applicable restocking fees and taxes if already paid.

Any product returned to Dell without prior authorization from Dell will be considered an unauthorized return, and the customer will not receive credit for the product and Dell will not ship the product back to you.

Refunds or exchanges for defective merchandise can be made within 30 days of receipt of the merchandise.

FEES:

Unless the product is defective or the return is a direct result of a Dell error, the refund or credit does not include any shipping and handling charges shown on your packing slip or invoice; you are responsible for those and for any damages incurred during the return shipment.

THE REFUND OR CREDIT IS ALSO SUBJECT TO A FIFTEEN PERCENT (15%) RETURN ADMINISTRATIVE FEE OF THE PURCHASE PRICE PAID PLUS ANY APPLICABLE SALES TAX UNLESS OTHERWISE PROHIBITED BY LAW."

@r72019 Definitely hope that it's a simple issue at the fuse box. I guess I'll find out tomorrow.

I don't think it's a wattage ( ampere) issue since you plug in different high wattage appliances and it did not trip.

Arcing ( electrical noise) could anything from a loose connection , a bad breaker( old and too sensitive )or in some cases Compact Fluorescent, bad light dimmers, cheap DEL lights and poor switching power supplies or even bad computer cable , wall smart switches and recepticals ( they do transmit signals that could look like arcing.) and so on...on  that breaker.

 Power bars and ups are usually for the client side.( remove the noise from the ac source ).Not sure if it would work on something like this.

You don't tell us what else is connected to that circuit, surely that particular breaker is not for single AC .It could be receptacle in the other room.It could be just adding up the noises.

You seem to be on a tipping point for that breaker.

@steadler thanks for the response. I have tried unplugging all other appliances from every known outlet connecting to the bedroom circuit. As I described earlier, this allowed the computer to run without issue, on high load. It is possible that there are some other unknown appliances drawing power from this circuit, as I am not an electrician nor do I know exactly how the wiring of this apartment was done. However, turning that particular breaker off does not remove power from any other appliance/light or electronic that I can observe in this apartment.

What I did notice however, is that turning on one incandescent bedside lamp, a small desk fan on low setting, and another lamp consisting of 3 cfl bulbs, in addition to the computer running on high load, was enough to trip the breaker. Upon inspection the breaker was not warm to the touch. I have also brought this combination of appliances to the living room and tried the same, and was not able to trip the living room breaker. I added some additional load in the living room, consisting of another two lamps and a christmas tree and was still not able to trip the living room breaker.  I think that a kill-a-watt meter would help to substantiate these results, but I do not have one on hand. 

I realize that with this kind of information it is unlikely that anyone is going to be able to tell me exactly what is wrong and how I can fix it. I'm really just hoping that maybe someone out there would have had a matching experience, and help point me at what may be the offending factor. Judging by the responses, and a lack of similar complaints on the forum, it sounds like it is unlikely that I have a faulty PSU. Again, I appreciate all the input that I've gotten, I'm hoping that this is an easily rectified issue with either a badly wired circuit, or an overly sensitive circuit breaker.